Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Caboosegg
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Caboosegg » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:30 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:27 am
fozzieskem wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:01 am
josie andrews wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:26 pm


I always got it 😉
Oh I know you did Josie,after all we often talked about how he’d be missed and more to the was missed,I was referring of course to the wider board 😀
Sorry but no - Smith was another incredibly average player - some people had this notion that he was this great organising general he absolutely was not - he was another slow limited average player who was never really good enough to play for Wigan - this idea that we never replaced him absolute nonsense Smith left us at age 29 so not exactly old and what did he do after in the 3 years that followed before he found his level at Widnes - got passed around and not played because he wasn't good enough - no matter how nice he was or how good he trained or how committed he was not good enough - he only played for st helens because of KFC

I hate the idea people think certain players are "whipping boys" - its always the same kinda player too - no-one minds your Zak Hardakers or Gareth Hocks getting a bit of stick but start calling out the "solid professionals" and suddenly they are the whipping boy.

Smith was a poor half back, Powell is a poor hooker - its nothing personal, but the modern game is dynamic you need to have speed and if you havent got that you need to be incredibly smart with the ball which neither of these are.

Powell is Smith Mk2 really hes just been luckier- think about it imagine that Logan Tomkins had turned out to be a really good hooker. Powell would of stayed at half back - and he would have never had made it because he wasnt good enough to be a half back for Wigan - the main reason he starts for us and plays here is that we literally have had no other hookers in our team so he has had no competition. Im sure Wigan dont mind him there because we know how much Radlinkski loves players who are triers and he wont kick up any controversy
Smith was a whipping boy, no he wasn't the best half back but he was exactly what we needed to balance out the team first with Blake Green and then with a young Williams and he won us plenty of games with his drop goals.

It isn't also a case of he went down hill after leaving, his career took a downward spiral after the eye injuries and a period of alot of promising half backs coming through.

Would I want him back No but to state he was always rubbish and not good enough is ignoring what he brought.

Of course this is my opinion.

There's also no such thing as Wigan standard in a salary cap sport, everyone can spend the same and will be looking for the best players available in that budget.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

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fozzieskem
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by fozzieskem » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:37 pm

Barney841 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:34 am
fozzieskem wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:08 pm
Powell is some people’s whipping boy,like Smith before him it is what it is
I don’t think powell or smith were whipping boy’s. All people say is the truth about there weakness’s in their game.
And I think Hastings and Harry smith are well worthy replacements of Matty smith.
I think it’s the coaching where it’s going wrong and that’s why it seems like we haven’t replaced Matty smith
Smith was an organiser something that has nothing to do with coaching he got the side round the field usually pretty well I thought over the years and that one aspect hasn’t been replaced.

As for being a whipping boy I state case number one,the day of the Wakefield game a few years ago when barely a body could stand up and not surprisingly when down to that heavy defeat 60 odd was it?,anyway on way back to coach some moron without a trace of irony complained Smith had had a shocking game and shouldn’t have been playing,given Mabel the tea lady would have been his replacement I’m not sure what more he could have done,so to me the very essence of a whipping boy.

Wigan simply haven’t replaced what he brought to the team,but it’s all about opinions isn’t it?

Barney841
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Barney841 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:47 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:37 pm
Barney841 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:34 am
fozzieskem wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:08 pm
Powell is some people’s whipping boy,like Smith before him it is what it is
I don’t think powell or smith were whipping boy’s. All people say is the truth about there weakness’s in their game.
And I think Hastings and Harry smith are well worthy replacements of Matty smith.
I think it’s the coaching where it’s going wrong and that’s why it seems like we haven’t replaced Matty smith
Smith was an organiser something that has nothing to do with coaching he got the side round the field usually pretty well I thought over the years and that one aspect hasn’t been replaced.

As for being a whipping boy I state case number one,the day of the Wakefield game a few years ago when barely a body could stand up and not surprisingly when down to that heavy defeat 60 odd was it?,anyway on way back to coach some moron without a trace of irony complained Smith had had a shocking game and shouldn’t have been playing,given Mabel the tea lady would have been his replacement I’m not sure what more he could have done,so to me the very essence of a whipping boy.

Wigan simply haven’t replaced what he brought to the team,but it’s all about opinions isn’t it?
Smith took on the role as organiser and it came naturally to him. But to say you can’t coach that i don’t believe, when your a coach you do set moves, the pattern you want the team to play and surely they would say to whoever, I want you to be the pivot and the organiser?

nathan_rugby
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by nathan_rugby » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:57 pm

Barney841 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:47 pm
fozzieskem wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:37 pm
Barney841 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:34 am


I don’t think powell or smith were whipping boy’s. All people say is the truth about there weakness’s in their game.
And I think Hastings and Harry smith are well worthy replacements of Matty smith.
I think it’s the coaching where it’s going wrong and that’s why it seems like we haven’t replaced Matty smith
Smith was an organiser something that has nothing to do with coaching he got the side round the field usually pretty well I thought over the years and that one aspect hasn’t been replaced.

As for being a whipping boy I state case number one,the day of the Wakefield game a few years ago when barely a body could stand up and not surprisingly when down to that heavy defeat 60 odd was it?,anyway on way back to coach some moron without a trace of irony complained Smith had had a shocking game and shouldn’t have been playing,given Mabel the tea lady would have been his replacement I’m not sure what more he could have done,so to me the very essence of a whipping boy.

Wigan simply haven’t replaced what he brought to the team,but it’s all about opinions isn’t it?
Smith took on the role as organiser and it came naturally to him. But to say you can’t coach that i don’t believe, when your a coach you do set moves, the pattern you want the team to play and surely they would say to whoever, I want you to be the pivot and the organiser?
Whilst you can coach set moves, patterns etc, you cannot coach experience, Rugby League acumen, ability to organise and know what to do in different situations such as when to take risks, when to play possession, when to slow the clock down etc.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."

Barney841
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:24 am

Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Barney841 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:37 pm

That’s is true. Being a good organiser does come with experience

DaveO
Posts: 14606
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by DaveO » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:54 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:30 pm
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:27 am
fozzieskem wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:01 am


Oh I know you did Josie,after all we often talked about how he’d be missed and more to the was missed,I was referring of course to the wider board 😀
Sorry but no - Smith was another incredibly average player - some people had this notion that he was this great organising general he absolutely was not - he was another slow limited average player who was never really good enough to play for Wigan - this idea that we never replaced him absolute nonsense Smith left us at age 29 so not exactly old and what did he do after in the 3 years that followed before he found his level at Widnes - got passed around and not played because he wasn't good enough - no matter how nice he was or how good he trained or how committed he was not good enough - he only played for st helens because of KFC

I hate the idea people think certain players are "whipping boys" - its always the same kinda player too - no-one minds your Zak Hardakers or Gareth Hocks getting a bit of stick but start calling out the "solid professionals" and suddenly they are the whipping boy.

Smith was a poor half back, Powell is a poor hooker - its nothing personal, but the modern game is dynamic you need to have speed and if you havent got that you need to be incredibly smart with the ball which neither of these are.

Powell is Smith Mk2 really hes just been luckier- think about it imagine that Logan Tomkins had turned out to be a really good hooker. Powell would of stayed at half back - and he would have never had made it because he wasnt good enough to be a half back for Wigan - the main reason he starts for us and plays here is that we literally have had no other hookers in our team so he has had no competition. Im sure Wigan dont mind him there because we know how much Radlinkski loves players who are triers and he wont kick up any controversy
Smith was a whipping boy, no he wasn't the best half back but he was exactly what we needed to balance out the team first with Blake Green and then with a young Williams and he won us plenty of games with his drop goals.

It isn't also a case of he went down hill after leaving, his career took a downward spiral after the eye injuries and a period of alot of promising half backs coming through.

Would I want him back No but to state he was always rubbish and not good enough is ignoring what he brought.

Of course this is my opinion.

There's also no such thing as Wigan standard in a salary cap sport, everyone can spend the same and will be looking for the best players available in that budget.
Wigan_forever1985 is spot on and as to the salary cap and Wigan standard, Les Cats have a better hooker than we do by a country mile under that same cap and the only reason they do is because we pushed McIllorum out when he didn't want to leave. It's the stupid decisions like that that gets fans backs up.

Radlinski appears to think like fans who think the club should be loyal to players who try their best but aren't good enough who given half a chance of better wages would leave anyway. The club owed/owes players like Matty Smith and Powell nothing.

Powell is nailed on for a new deal for three reasons. 1. The club faces zero competition for his signature 2. he will be cheap and 3. it saves Rads from having to do some work to find someone better which if he was any good at his job he should be constantly on the look out for.

The culture of constant improvement has gone from Wigan as evidenced by the fact players like Powell get automatic contract renewals, Clubb was given a new deal when past it and players like Lockers & Tommy played too long. The idea this is a result of the salary cap is bonkers as other clubs don't appear to be doing this.

josie andrews
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by josie andrews » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:56 pm

Tony Clubb's Wigan Warriors departure 'confirmed' by leaked RFL document

The RFL list shows that Clubb will not be offered a new deal by the club.

Tony Clubb will leave Wigan Warriors at the end of the season.

An RFL document obtained by Rugby League Live shows that the experienced forward has not been offered terms by the Warriors heading into next season.

Clubb, who turns 34 on Saturday, has made over 150 appearances since arriving at the DW Stadium.

Also on the list are four other off-contract players whose status is described as 'not yet determined.'

Bevan French, Dom Manfredi, Tommy Leuluai and Amir Bourouh are all named, but it's the players who are not on the list that make for the most interesting talking points.

As expected, Jackson Hastings and Oliver Gildart are excluded, with the pair heading for Wests Tigers at the end of the season.

Joe Bullock is also absent, with a move to Warrington Wolves thought to be finalised.

But three other off-contract players, Sam Powell, Jake Bibby and Willie Isa, are not mentioned on the list.

When a player isn't included on the list, it usually means their future has been resolved, whether that be with their current club or a rival. The trio are all currently in the final year of their existing deals.

This year, there are some anomalies that have resulted in the validity of the document being questioned. For example, Alex Sutcliffe is named as part of Leeds' undecided players, but the club has already confirmed he is leaving at the end of the season.

However, the absence of the aforementioned trio will leave Wigan fans hoping that the club has tied them down for next season and beyond.

It would also suggest that neither Leuluai nor French have made decisions on what the future holds.

Captain Leuluai turns 36 later this month and has previously stated that he will make a decision on his future later this year while French has an option in his deal to stay at the club another year.

Wigan Warriors' off-contract list according to the RFL:

Not yet determined: Amir Bourouh, Dom Manfredi, Bevan French, Tommy Leuluai.

No offer: Tony Clubb

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Barney841
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Barney841 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:19 pm

Thank the lord! Clubb is finally leaving. 2 years too late but better late than never

Caboosegg
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Caboosegg » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:51 pm

If Club leaves I wish him all the best he has been a good servant to the club since joining
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

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morley pie eater
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by morley pie eater » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:45 pm

EagleEyePie wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:05 pm
2 tries and 8 assists from both Roby and McShane last season
11 tries and 4 assists from Powell last season (4th top try scorer in Super League)

Powell isn't half as bad as some people want to make out. I don't think he's playing particularly well this year but how many of our players actually are? He's not a hooker who naturally wants to take the ball out of dummy half but opportunities for him to do so playing in our pack this year will also be fairly limited.

Last season Powell averaged 3.5 runs from dummy half per game and just under 30 metres.
This season it's 1.2 runs from dummy half and about 13 metres per game.

I'd say that's more to do with our poor team performances than a massive drop in form from Powell.

I don't think Powell is in the McShane, Clark, Roby class and if we had the chance to sign someone of that quality I'd be happy for the club to send Powell on his way, but I don't think that kind of quality is easy to come by. For me Powell is in the tier below those. He's not perfect, he's a bit limited in some aspects, but the same can be said of most players in any position. Once you get past the real all round athletes you get the players who are good at some things but weaker in other areas.

I do think we'd be more dangerous with another option at hooker and someone who might be a bit more direct, but I don't think it's our biggest issue right now. Most teams play with interchange hookers and perhaps that's something Lam was looking into this season before injuries struck. Hastings being the obvious option to move into dummy half.

If our form does pick up over the next few games but Powell doesn't get close to 2020 form then I'd think a change at hooker a more urgent priority but at the moment I'd say, with recruitment looking difficult, getting rid of Powell at all costs should not be on the agenda.

Certainly running from dummy half isn't something that will prevent a team from being an attacking threat. Catalans have McIlorum and Da Costa as 9's and they don't carry the ball. Mourgue is used sparingly at 9 and makes an impact, and perhaps that brief use of a more direct player is something we lack.
Yes!!!!

A few people on here have had issues with Sam P forever. They think because they get support in the echo chamber that they're right.

He was Wane's "love child" and no other coach would pick him. Then Lam strangely continues, not only to select Sam, but to play him for 80 minutes. Does the fact that 2 very different coaches seem to rate him make them question their ability as armchair coaches....not a bit of it!!!

As has been said, Roby is a one-off. Clark has been mentioned, but imo he's a bit of a "one trick pony", but both have different styles. Sam is nearer to Danny Houghton, who doesn't seem to get a mention, but is a better 9 than Clark.

Just because someone doesn't meet your ideas of what a hooker should do, it doesn't make them a bad player. And a good coach, even an armchair one, gets the best out of the players he's got rather than trying to get them to play like someone else.

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