Wigan v HKR game

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
thegimble
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by thegimble »

pedro wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:33 pm
thegimble wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:57 am
pedro wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:11 pm

but won it with wane when he said he wouldnt be here for the year after
Different situation. Player quality is poorer and going to be worse. Also Wane is a motivator coach. Whilst Lam is IL patsy.
its the same situation but a poor coach then?
Not replacing quality of player like for like and thats IL and Rads problem. So you think this side is equal to Wanes last one.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by Charriots Offiah »

I agree with the first part of your first sentence but as for Zak being one of the best creative fullbacks I have got to disagree. The decision to play Hastings at fullback was a master stroke, not! Jackson doesn’t have the pace to play in that position, Hanley should have been the choice as he will be at Wakefield next week. Lam has lost the plot and it would appear the dressing room as well!
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wall_of_voodoo
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by wall_of_voodoo »

I've said before and will repeat myself. If we ae signing players from London Broncos maybe it is time to recruit their coach as well. Danny Ward managed to get London playing a very good brand of rugby with limited resources whilst in SL and continues to do so to the extent that we covet their players now

Would have preferred Steve Kearney but that isn't going to happen whilst we are penny pinching so the next best thing (in my opinion) to Ian Watson is the London coach
I'm a better fan than you
Because I don't "Boo"!!!

Yes I bloody know transfer fees do not count on the salary cap for those illiterates that need it explaining to them because they assume everyone is as thick as they are :roll:
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wall_of_voodoo
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by wall_of_voodoo »

RE; Sam Powell. Maybe, just maybe another coach can get more from him although I will not hold my breath.

He was correctly identified as robotic and that is a perfect name for him. I watched the Aussies games recently and the commentators were talking about how important having a good rake (hooker) is. It's the kicker aimlessly kicking without looking scenario. He simply stifles any attack and draws opposition defenders onto our runners just as they receive it - slow slow quick slow slow

In the past Shaun Wane claimed he named Sam Powell first on his team sheets due to his efforts in training and on the pitch. Now he is England coach he isn't even fourth choice for him. This "well Lam selects him" rubbish is what it is! Who else is there? The choices are we play an out-of-form/past his best halfback at hooker or try the former man of steel there - thus removing the strengths/qualities that made him that in the first place

Having a quality 9 would make a serious change to this team (and a better coach than Lam who is looking out of his depth now)
I'm a better fan than you
Because I don't "Boo"!!!

Yes I bloody know transfer fees do not count on the salary cap for those illiterates that need it explaining to them because they assume everyone is as thick as they are :roll:
AndyNick
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by AndyNick »

DaveO wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:54 pm
AndyNick wrote:
DaveO wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:28 pm

Just got back after a nightmare journey home due the junction on the M6 bing shut! My son came over from Leeds and I was dropping him off at Newton-le-Willows station for his train which he made with five minutes to spare. I have driven to places I never been before tonight.

As to he Powell proved to right what I said the other week. He's the worst hooker have have had since the 80's.

He can't direct the forwards to save his life and his standard play which he did numerous times is this:

Step 1. Plant feet
Step 2. Move the ball to the left as in some sort of an excuse for a dummy
Step 3. Pass the ball right.

This is all done in slow motion so the opposition are up before the ball is going anywhere and step 2. is quite frankly laughable. He looks like a five year old kid pretending to play RL mimicking something he's seen on TV.

He is garbage and I am sorry if anyone thinks otherwise, time to go to specsavers.
Here we go. How on earth are you singling out Powell from last night? You've got Bullock who dropped more balls than he caught. You've got Gildart who popped up to finish two tries but for most of the match looked completely out of sorts. Was Tommy on the pitch? I didn't notice?? But yeah it was Powells fault.

On a positive note, Marshall did OK on his return, Kai Pearce-Paul was probably our best player when he came on and Joe Shorrocks at least tried to spark some sort of effort. The rest were just lacklustre and felt like they were waiting for something to happen. It needed someone to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take command. Smith you felt was trying to make something happen but the execution wasn't there. He actually reminds me a lot of George Williams when he first came in, needs to learn when to go for the Hollywood play and when to just take the contact and move on to the next play.
The reason I singled him out from last night is with zero coming from the halves in terms of creating anything you look to other players to do something and no 9 in the modern game is a key creative position and literally nothing came from him.

I have never understood the pedestal some fans put him on. It seems to stem from one season where he played every game and put in a shed load of tackles but he’s spent that penny long ago in my opinion.

Maybe when the team was overall of better quality and coached differently his shortcomings were not so obvious but I defy anyone who knows anything about the game who watches him play to conclude he’s not poor.
So you singled Powell out for criticism, because the half backs weren't doing their job??

This is my point. There are better hookers around than Sam Powell but hes a solid option and for what he costs us on the cap, does a job (providing the space he frees up is used effectively, but that's another story that again is not his fault....) He was far from the worst Wigan player on the park last night but he's the one people want to get stuck into. Where's the 10 page thread on Gildart looking completely disinterested for 65 minutes or does that get forgotten because he was on the end of a couple of tryscoring passes? Where's the 10 page thread on Tommy being totally anonymous? He's the club captain? He's the one who last night should have taken the game by the scruff of the neck and ground out an ugly win. What did Partington do last night other than hit the kicker late a few times? Bullock dropping the very first pass of an attacking set??

Behind a pack that was making very few metres and a backline that looked completely void of ideas, I'm really not sure what difference a better hooker could have made last night.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by Charriots Offiah »

thegimble wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:12 pm
pedro wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:33 pm
thegimble wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:57 am

Different situation. Player quality is poorer and going to be worse. Also Wane is a motivator coach. Whilst Lam is IL patsy.
its the same situation but a poor coach then?
Not replacing quality of player like for like and thats IL and Rads problem. So you think this side is equal to Wanes last one.
What you are failing to recognise is that the standard across the board is worse, Wane's teams played against better opposition.
DaveO
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by DaveO »

AndyNick wrote:
DaveO wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:54 pm
AndyNick wrote: Here we go. How on earth are you singling out Powell from last night? You've got Bullock who dropped more balls than he caught. You've got Gildart who popped up to finish two tries but for most of the match looked completely out of sorts. Was Tommy on the pitch? I didn't notice?? But yeah it was Powells fault.

On a positive note, Marshall did OK on his return, Kai Pearce-Paul was probably our best player when he came on and Joe Shorrocks at least tried to spark some sort of effort. The rest were just lacklustre and felt like they were waiting for something to happen. It needed someone to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take command. Smith you felt was trying to make something happen but the execution wasn't there. He actually reminds me a lot of George Williams when he first came in, needs to learn when to go for the Hollywood play and when to just take the contact and move on to the next play.
The reason I singled him out from last night is with zero coming from the halves in terms of creating anything you look to other players to do something and no 9 in the modern game is a key creative position and literally nothing came from him.

I have never understood the pedestal some fans put him on. It seems to stem from one season where he played every game and put in a shed load of tackles but he’s spent that penny long ago in my opinion.

Maybe when the team was overall of better quality and coached differently his shortcomings were not so obvious but I defy anyone who knows anything about the game who watches him play to conclude he’s not poor.
So you singled Powell out for criticism, because the half backs weren't doing their job??

This is my point. There are better hookers around than Sam Powell but hes a solid option and for what he costs us on the cap, does a job (providing the space he frees up is used effectively, but that's another story that again is not his fault....) He was far from the worst Wigan player on the park last night but he's the one people want to get stuck into. Where's the 10 page thread on Gildart looking completely disinterested for 65 minutes or does that get forgotten because he was on the end of a couple of tryscoring passes? Where's the 10 page thread on Tommy being totally anonymous? He's the club captain? He's the one who last night should have taken the game by the scruff of the neck and ground out an ugly win. What did Partington do last night other than hit the kicker late a few times? Bullock dropping the very first pass of an attacking set??

Behind a pack that was making very few metres and a backline that looked completely void of ideas, I'm really not sure what difference a better hooker could have made last night.
I thought the point I was making about the half backs doing nothing as regards Powell was perfectly clear. It highlighted a absolutely nothing was coming from our 9 either.

Hastings had been put at full back and that meant last night we got nothing from 6, 7 and 9. If Powell had any attacking skills in him whatsoever, which he doesn’t, maybe Lam moving Hastings wouldn’t have been such a disaster.

As to the value for money argument this is ridiculous. Hooker is a key position in the modern game and our side has suffered from having gone for the cheap option with Powell and not having a good 9 ever since Powell took over the job full time.
thegimble
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by thegimble »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:34 pm
thegimble wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:12 pm
pedro wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:33 pm

its the same situation but a poor coach then?
Not replacing quality of player like for like and thats IL and Rads problem. So you think this side is equal to Wanes last one.
What you are failing to recognise is that the standard across the board is worse, Wane's teams played against better opposition.
Then RL is going semi pro very soon. Standards since 2013 is shocking. Last gf with 2 good teams since then year on year its worsening. But who is to blame coaches or owners.
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by EagleEyePie »

Every week there are people criticising Powell because he's not good enough in attack and fair enough, some people don't rate him and see that as a massive issue but when you compare him to Leuluai it's hard to argue that he isn't being unfairly singled out. All the criticisms of Powell can be thrown at Leulaui's door too but he's managed to largely escape criticism. Thread after thread ends up on the subject of Powell and his attacking play but shouldn't we also be focusing on our halfback? Arguably a position with an even greater need for attacking prowess.

Leuluai in 2020:
Starts: 14 - Tries: 1 - Assists: 7

Smith in 2021:
Starts: 6 - Tries: 1 - Assists: 4

Leuluai in 2021:
Starts: 5 - Tries: 0 - Assists: 0

And while not directly comparable;

Powell in 2020:
Starts: 15 - Tries: 11 - Assists: 4

Powell in 2021:
Starts: 9 - Tries: 1 - Assists: 3

While Powell is way down in terms of tries scored he's on course to beat his number of assists from last season. In fact 3 assists is the same as McShane and Clark and the joint highest of any hooker.

I know there's a lot more to it than that and I'm not saying Powell is as good as the two other hookers mentioned but I don't believe he deserves anything like the constant criticism that he gets given there are a whole host of vastly underperforming players right now that don't have thread after thread dedicated to how awful they apparently are.

Meanwhile, Leuluai offers up awful attack each week and no one seems to bat an eyelid. Maybe it's because he's solid defensively but you don't pick a halfback to avoid conceding tries, you pick a halfback to create and score tries.
AndyNick
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Re: Wigan v HKR game

Post by AndyNick »

EagleEyePie wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:19 pm Every week there are people criticising Powell because he's not good enough in attack and fair enough, some people don't rate him and see that as a massive issue but when you compare him to Leuluai it's hard to argue that he isn't being unfairly singled out. All the criticisms of Powell can be thrown at Leulaui's door too but he's managed to largely escape criticism. Thread after thread ends up on the subject of Powell and his attacking play but shouldn't we also be focusing on our halfback? Arguably a position with an even greater need for attacking prowess.

Leuluai in 2020:
Starts: 14 - Tries: 1 - Assists: 7

Smith in 2021:
Starts: 6 - Tries: 1 - Assists: 4

Leuluai in 2021:
Starts: 5 - Tries: 0 - Assists: 0

And while not directly comparable;

Powell in 2020:
Starts: 15 - Tries: 11 - Assists: 4

Powell in 2021:
Starts: 9 - Tries: 1 - Assists: 3

While Powell is way down in terms of tries scored he's on course to beat his number of assists from last season. In fact 3 assists is the same as McShane and Clark and the joint highest of any hooker.

I know there's a lot more to it than that and I'm not saying Powell is as good as the two other hookers mentioned but I don't believe he deserves anything like the constant criticism that he gets given there are a whole host of vastly underperforming players right now that don't have thread after thread dedicated to how awful they apparently are.

Meanwhile, Leuluai offers up awful attack each week and no one seems to bat an eyelid. Maybe it's because he's solid defensively but you don't pick a halfback to avoid conceding tries, you pick a halfback to create and score tries.
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to argue that Powell is a world class operator. Believe me I know that he isn't, but he's judged by a different standard to other players. Tommy was completely anonymous last night and there's not a single post mentioning that, straightaway the default position is to go for Powell.
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