Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
widdenoldboy
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by widdenoldboy »

Bibby is fast, he just doesn't look it. I've never seen Bibby play well at centre, even at Salford. He has a finishers instinct and is a decent winger.
Nezza Faz
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by Nezza Faz »

Not sure, but one of my worries is with the large numbers of Aussies, all together unknown to British winters, and how long it will take them to settle in to these conditions, not just tactically but climate wise, coming direct from an Aussie summer.
And this can also apply to Field and French, who will have to get this feeling back into their stride after their lengthy absences.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by Charriots Offiah »

widdenoldboy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:45 pm Bibby is fast, he just doesn't look it. I've never seen Bibby play well at centre, even at Salford. He has a finishers instinct and is a decent winger.
Didn't look like it in 2020 Grand Final.
DaveO
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by DaveO »

Flash wrote:
DaveO wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:04 am
Charriots Offiah wrote: I am positive we will be far better than last season.
Well that’s not hard to be honest but just like last season we need French fit but far better? Not sure about that when we will probably have centre pairing of Bibby and Thornley for a while.

We also need Peet to get more out of Powell and for Tommy to defy his age. I am not sure either is possible.

I do think Cust, Mago and Ellis are positive additions but my fear is Cust will be a one man band like Hastings was because he’s basically it just as Hastings was.
That's a massive oversimplification Dave. You have no idea how Thornley will go as yet and, even at his worst, he'll be better than Gildart was last year. Even more telling, a Thornley/Bibby partnership has to be considerably better than a Farrell/Isa one which we often had last year unless you subscribe to Lam's 'square pegs in round holes' philosophy, which I'm pretty certain you don't. That's before we get to the fact that the club expects French to be ready to go for the start of the season anyway!

Cust is a different player to Hastings and any partnerships will be different too. Hastings tried to do everything himself and didn't really form partnerships as such anyway. I would expect both a Cust/Tommy and a Cust/Smith partnership to be better than anything we had last year simply because they are likely to be just that...a partnership.

Our front row is significantly stronger than last year both in terms of the new personnel (Mago and Ellis HAVE to be better than Clubb and Bullock and the youngsters are a year older and don't have to contend with being the 'senior' props). You would also expect Bateman to be significantly better than last year as he was way down on any season he's ever had previously last time out. Our pack is better this year, no question. Much better in fact.

Then there's the new coaching setup. I'll say no more on whether I expect them to get more out of this squad than Lam did other than to say they simply couldn't get less.

To say we're the same other than Cust for Hastings is not painting the true picture. Not even close.
No idea how Thornley will go? That implies you think he’s going to be a better player than he has been for his entire career. I am not over simplifying anything by expecting him to be the player he is.

I have also seen it said before he’d be better than Gildart but that’s irrelevant. It’s how good he is that counts and that’s not very good. Likewise a Bibby/Thornley being better than two back row forwards at centre is ignoring how good a pair of centres they are and I stand by my comment this is the worse pairing I have seen since watching Wigan.

I have no issues with the new forwards as I said but our new coaching setup inherits this exact same problem Lam had with French injured and that is everything going through the star half back on attack. Peet and Co have not got much to work with at hooker and in the backs and while I’d hope Bateman adds to the forwards we have a question mark over Hardaker’s attitude since he clearly doesn’t want to be here. Hopefully he will get his head down and that won’t be an issue.
Flash
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by Flash »

DaveO wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:58 pm
Flash wrote:
DaveO wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:04 am
Well that’s not hard to be honest but just like last season we need French fit but far better? Not sure about that when we will probably have centre pairing of Bibby and Thornley for a while.

We also need Peet to get more out of Powell and for Tommy to defy his age. I am not sure either is possible.

I do think Cust, Mago and Ellis are positive additions but my fear is Cust will be a one man band like Hastings was because he’s basically it just as Hastings was.
That's a massive oversimplification Dave. You have no idea how Thornley will go as yet and, even at his worst, he'll be better than Gildart was last year. Even more telling, a Thornley/Bibby partnership has to be considerably better than a Farrell/Isa one which we often had last year unless you subscribe to Lam's 'square pegs in round holes' philosophy, which I'm pretty certain you don't. That's before we get to the fact that the club expects French to be ready to go for the start of the season anyway!

Cust is a different player to Hastings and any partnerships will be different too. Hastings tried to do everything himself and didn't really form partnerships as such anyway. I would expect both a Cust/Tommy and a Cust/Smith partnership to be better than anything we had last year simply because they are likely to be just that...a partnership.

Our front row is significantly stronger than last year both in terms of the new personnel (Mago and Ellis HAVE to be better than Clubb and Bullock and the youngsters are a year older and don't have to contend with being the 'senior' props). You would also expect Bateman to be significantly better than last year as he was way down on any season he's ever had previously last time out. Our pack is better this year, no question. Much better in fact.

Then there's the new coaching setup. I'll say no more on whether I expect them to get more out of this squad than Lam did other than to say they simply couldn't get less.

To say we're the same other than Cust for Hastings is not painting the true picture. Not even close.
No idea how Thornley will go? That implies you think he’s going to be a better player than he has been for his entire career. I am not over simplifying anything by expecting him to be the player he is.

I have also seen it said before he’d be better than Gildart but that’s irrelevant. It’s how good he is that counts and that’s not very good. Likewise a Bibby/Thornley being better than two back row forwards at centre is ignoring how good a pair of centres they are and I stand by my comment this is the worse pairing I have seen since watching Wigan.

I have no issues with the new forwards as I said but our new coaching setup inherits this exact same problem Lam had with French injured and that is everything going through the star half back on attack. Peet and Co have not got much to work with at hooker and in the backs and while I’d hope Bateman adds to the forwards we have a question mark over Hardaker’s attitude since he clearly doesn’t want to be here. Hopefully he will get his head down and that won’t be an issue.
Again I have to disagree. You are assuming he'll be operate at the lower end of his abilities. He could equally operate at the higher end of his abilities. It all depends on whether he thrives in this team and environment and under this coaching set up or not. You are basically saying "nothing can ever change from what went before" which is clearly nonsense. I can't say he will thrive or he won't thrive but that's exactly the point as neither can you. Ergo, you don't know how he will go. You can only make assumptions which may or may not turn out to be true.

It absolutely isn't irrelevant whether he's better than Gildart was last year as that is exactly the comparison you're making. You are saying the only change from last year is Cust for Hastings so ANY improvement elsewhere is relevant as it contradicts this assertion. Whether it is or isn't the worst pairing historically has no bearing on a comparison between last season and this unless it's worse than last season which it clearly isn't as we have added a player who can play for one who, for the most part, couldn't.

Finally, they haven't inherited the same problem as:

1) French is likely to be back and unlikely to be injured for the season again.

2) Field is unlikely to be out for the season after just a few minutes game time again.

3) Improvements in the team that took to the field last season, and particularly in the pack, means that we shouldn't be on the back foot as much potentially allowing for improved attacking play across the board.

4) We have a new coaching team that shouldn't stifle our attack by constantly playing players out of position etc.

5) Most importantly, Cust is not Hastings. You can have no idea how he will affect those around him. On the face of it Deacon wasn't a world beater when he came to us but the effect he had on the team went way beyond his individual ability.

In short, as I said, to say we are no different other than Cust for Hastings is a massive oversimplification.
widdenoldboy
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by widdenoldboy »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:27 pm
widdenoldboy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:45 pm Bibby is fast, he just doesn't look it. I've never seen Bibby play well at centre, even at Salford. He has a finishers instinct and is a decent winger.
Didn't look like it in 2020 Grand Final.
Scoring Wigan's try, you mean?
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by Charriots Offiah »

widdenoldboy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:04 am
Charriots Offiah wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:27 pm
widdenoldboy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:45 pm Bibby is fast, he just doesn't look it. I've never seen Bibby play well at centre, even at Salford. He has a finishers instinct and is a decent winger.
Didn't look like it in 2020 Grand Final.
Scoring Wigan's try, you mean?
No, missing the opportunity to finish the other two chances he had.
Caboosegg
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by Caboosegg »

If Thornley can keep his scoring form from the last 2 years I will be happy, for a supposed very poor centre who cannot cut it 23 tries in 48 games.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
widdenoldboy
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by widdenoldboy »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:17 pm
widdenoldboy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:04 am
Charriots Offiah wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:27 pm

Didn't look like it in 2020 Grand Final.
Scoring Wigan's try, you mean?
No, missing the opportunity to finish the other two chances he had.
:) that were bad passes from the centres (or perhaps just surprise) :)
Exiled Wiganer
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Re: Wigan’s 2022 squad numbers

Post by Exiled Wiganer »

I can follow the argument that, given all the changes and believing the club’s claims that French will return and be fit, it is feasible that we might be better than last year (though the uncertainty brought about by change works both ways), I wonder if I am alone in remembering how awful Waneball was to watch. As Wane will still be involved, I am not holding my breath that we won’t be replacing accidentally unwatchable rugby with deliberately unwatchable rugby.

Surely, the club must actually realise by now that people watch expecting to be entertained!!!!
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