The blame game

[El Bobbers]

Urgh! Not posted for some time. This is the second time tonight I will say excellent post (by CP). LOL. I don't totally agree though. I don't think Ainscough and Carmont is a fair comparison due to the difference in work load etc. But if you look at the excuse Noble makes for not playing Ainscough (poor under the high ball/Defense) then it begs the question why is Smith in the team?

Smith's defense is extremely poor to the extent Gleeson has to cover for him. I don't have a problem with Smith playing as he offers good options in attack. But, the same can be said for Ainscough, and then some. His ability to break tackles and score tries far out weigh the downsides to his game. The high ball is his biggest problem but he should be protected by the centre for this. He looks nervous and uneasy under the high ball but surely this should be easy to work on. As for his tackling, I vaguely remember him showing in a couple of early games he is more than capable with dealing with most wingers one on one.

With regards the irrational feelings towards refereeing depending on if you win or loose, I think it is more of a case of fans not focusing on the ref's display due to the fact their team has won.

As to how refereeing can be improved, consistency is the most important thing. Different referees target different areas/rules and this sometimes occurs during the same game. I know RobJonez is going to stick up for his fellow officials, which is admirable, but, surely there is no question that there is a serious lack of consistency with the way games are refereed. Also, I don't think the 'merry flag wavers' take enough responsibility, too often they seem to ignore/or the ref takes no notice/or they do not want to take responsibility for clear and obvious penalties.

[The Eclipse]

George made a very poor front on attempt at a tackle v Wakefield yet I still read about Ainscough making a poor attempted tackle from the back on Eastmond in a reserve game.

My dad and i sat down and watched the Wakey game last week and he commented on Carmont when he missed that tackle for the try.

I respect my dad's views on Rugby League more than anyone in the world, he has coached at Parramatta including players like Brett Kenny and Steve Ella etc.
His comments were "i see Carmont's defence hasn't improved"

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

George made a very poor front on attempt at a tackle v Wakefield yet I still read about Ainscough making a poor attempted tackle from the back on Eastmond in a reserve game.

He managed to do it again last night! He is past his best and needs replacing next season.

[cpwigan]

He has missed a few this season. I do think it has been silly playing him whilst he is not 100% fit. Whatever happened to duty of care lol. We actually have a really big squad of SL players but do not use them. I would even play Ian Thornley in a one off but what do I know.

[robjoenz]

As to how refereeing can be improved, consistency is the most important thing. Different referees target different areas/rules and this sometimes occurs during the same game. I know RobJonez is going to stick up for his fellow officials, which is admirable, but, surely there is no question that there is a serious lack of consistency with the way games are refereed. Also, I don't think the 'merry flag wavers' take enough responsibility, too often they seem to ignore/or the ref takes no notice/or they do not want to take responsibility for clear and obvious penalties.

What are these traits of different referees you have noticed? I've only ever thought that the way the match played out affected what penalties were given, rather than a 'style'.

Regarding consistency, do you want to see more penalties per game?

What do you think touch judges should do better? What part of their communication to the referee are you not happy with?

[robjoenz]

I found it interesting that when Wigan played Huddersfield the media had questioned Huddersfield's tactics and following the game a lot of fans said they didn't play in the spirit of the game. Yet last night Wigan ended up with 5 injured players requiring stitches and no-one questioned their tactics. I'm not saying that KR's tactics were underhand I am just wondering how much media opinion has to do with fan opinion.

[DaveO]

With the stigma of Ainscough having a bad defence it puts pressure on the cente Carmont as the focus of attack will be down his side of the pitch, taking away that Stigma by replacing Aincough with a more defensively sound player eliminates the oppositions options.
Did Carmont handle the added pressure of having Ainscough as his winger? maybe not as well as Gleeson does with Smith but Carmont certainly isnt as good as Gleeson. And Gleeson has covered bad defensive players all his career Long,Penny,Briers.

There is no blame game IMO Ainscough has alot of learning ahead of him and doesnt have the defensive qualities of Tomkins. Carmont doesnt look comfortable in defence when Ainscough is his winger so changes had to be made despite the immense talent of the man. I here you say why not play him on the right next to Gleeson, look at Warrington when Penny and Briers were in the same side and Gleeson had to cover the pair of them it just wont work.

Aincough is good enough but needs to really work hard on his defence and understanding with his center to eliminate the stigma of bad defence. And then we will see a better defensive partnership outwide.

This would be all well and good except for one thing. Ainscogh's defence is no where near as bad as you are making out. The statistics back this up. There is nothing in it between him and Roberts in terms of missed tackles and errors for example so Carmont is no safer with Roberts beside him than Ainscough. Ainscough even averages fewer missed tackles than Phelps for example. Do you think Roberts looks sound in defence? I don't think he is particularly good and of course on Friday without Ainscough in the side the one try scored out wide was on the left and Carmont's attempt was poor.

Now is am not having a go at Carmont because I think he is carrying an injury but the point is it just isn't the winger that will make teams attack our left. For one thing there is little difference defensively in the wingers but it is also true that even a fully fit Carmont is not as strong in defence as Gleeson. That is also why they will go that way. Our left is weak whoever we play there compared to Richards and Gleeson.

I think there is something in what CPW says. I firmly believe a lot of the Ainscough is poor in defence talk originated as people flew to the defence of Noble for dropping him (Not saying that is what you think BTW). They were looking for excuses for Noble so came up with that and when it is argued against they dig their heels in and are preprepared to exaggerate his weakness so as not to have to admit they may be wrong. This is done despite any evidence thrown up that contradicts their position and this is IMO what CPW is on about.

The same is happening over Tomkins. The excuse for dropping him I have seen are 1. He was tired and needed a rest and 2. the conditions didn't suit him on Friday.

I don't think there is anything in either and in fact would say the conditions did suit him being a running sort of half back. Here though exaggerated faults in his game were not used as the excuse to drop him so it isn't quite the same thing as with Ainscough but some people will now argue he can't play in the rain until black is white IMO if they are 100% Nobby supporters.

So what I am trying to say is the ignoring of one players faults compared to another's tends to be on the back of making a different point.

Dave

[OAMJSONA]

Dave


There is always the old adage

if they are good enough they are old enough




i will not mention names at this stage

[DaveO]

Dave

There is always the old adage

if they are good enough they are old enough

i will not mention names at this stage

They are and it is true but this is too inconvenient for some.

Dave

[yoda warrior]

noble never said ainscough was weak under kicks or in defence. he said 'he has things to work on'. the fact that everyone here jumps to the conclusion he meant kicks/defence means we already knew he had a weakness in these areas, and if we know, all other players/coaches know already so i don't necessarily agree noble made him a target, although i do agree he didn't need to say that in a press conference.

i think he perhaps deserves to be i the side at the moment (if the salary cap stories are false) on form. roberts made a mirale tackle to save a try on friday, one of the best cover tackles i've ever seen actually, but he struggled to get into the game attacking wise. also george seems to be struggling a bit at the minute. on form, ainscough deserves to be in the side ahead of those 2 and maybe others.