Joel Tomkins

[Wes]

Say what you like but I think we missed his size and niggle at Wembley.

[Wes]

Absolutely but I always go off we should not be in a position as to where the officials odd call going against us matters.

Our forwards are far too small, most packs this season have given ours a hiding Hull being one of them, Leeds a few weeks ago being another in the short term memory.

We need size and controlled aggression, our props are a mixed bunch but our biggest prop in FPN is awful our 2nd rowers are tiny, Sam Powell is average coming on as a sub and MM is hit and miss Lockers is still world class but for how long can he keep going around.

Joel is marmite but he is a big lad to handle, holds the ball in one hand and offers an offload and niggles away at the opposition when defending. We missed that at Wembley, we where far too ............. nice!

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Joel would always be in my 17 especially in the big games, believe it or not!

[Fan4Fifty]

Mine too - I've never understood the high level of criticism he's received and believe we do miss the size, niggle and aggression that he brings. Thought he was having a decent season until his injuries. Hope he's fit for this week.

[butt monkey]

In the words of Victor Meldrew. "I don't believe it"

Placing the absence of Joel and the possible reason for us losing at Wembley

That is so simplistic it deserves ridicule. Ignores every other issue the team has. Maybe we should say it was the lack of Manfredi that cost us the game?

Joel would never be anywhere near my bench, those that look back and claim his form was this or that, have either forgotten what he did prior to his union stint or are clutching at straws that he must be better than what we currently have

[Wes]

In the words of Victor Meldrew. "I don't believe it"

Placing the absence of Joel and the possible reason for us losing at Wembley

That is so simplistic it deserves ridicule. Ignores every other issue the team has. Maybe we should say it was the lack of Manfredi that cost us the game?

Joel would never be anywhere near my bench, those that look back and claim his form was this or that, have either forgotten what he did prior to his union stint or are clutching at straws that he must be better than what we currently have

In my opinion we missed him for reasons already explained that's not to say we would have won with him in the team nor did I say that!

It deserves ridicule...... why? Why does my post deserve ridicule? Show me my ignorance to every other issue?

I'm glad Josie is keeping this forum going but it is definitely on the slide. Forums are for opinions not ridicule!

[morley pie eater]

In the words of Victor Meldrew. "I don't believe it"

Placing the absence of Joel and the possible reason for us losing at Wembley

That is so simplistic it deserves ridicule. Ignores every other issue the team has. Maybe we should say it was the lack of Manfredi that cost us the game?

Joel would never be anywhere near my bench, those that look back and claim his form was this or that, have either forgotten what he did prior to his union stint or are clutching at straws that he must be better than what we currently have

??? Am I missing something? Who linked Joel's absence with us losing? I'm not sure that saying we missed him - or some aspects of his game - is the same as saying that's a reason we lost.

Like many, I think Joel is worth his place, though he may not have done his reputation any favours by playing with injuries at times. But if he is the latest whipping boy, I guess it gives Sam T, Sam P, MM, FPN, Williams, Gelling etc a break.

Just think, if only we'd kept wonder-kid Ryan Hampshire . . .

[First Try Tickle]

If Joel had been playing on Saturday in that heat he would have been blowing out of his backside within 10 mins.

Think of how he's been this season, he's shattered within no time and then the penalties start as he's lying on and niggling.

Plus he's been out for a few weeks so isn't even match fit.

All we needed on Saturday was for Faz to play the ball properly, we were on top before that penalty and it totally changed momentum.

[fozzieskem]

if he'd have been fit Saturday he would have played,but as ever he wasn't so didn't and I'd be surprised if we saw him again to next season,my gripe is time after he comes up short he simply isn't the player that left a couple of good turns this season don't change that he's been average at best since his return.

[butt monkey]

we missed his size and niggle at Wembley.

Now

1. If you "missed" him at Wembley. What exactly did you think he would do more than what the other players did?

2. If it was just "niggle" and be "bigger" how do you not suggest that would not simply have (a) Offered Hull more ball due to his niggle usually ending up being penalized, (b) His size has seen him lose his mobility, the try he scored at Wembley years ago he could never repeat, so his lack of mobility in that heat could/would have seen the team ship more points than we did

3. For those saying the connection between us losing and Joel should have been picked is "lost" on them. Well if the o.p. (and the others) cannot see the remark and then ask themselves - why say we "missed" a player and then NOT claim they are not saying it had anything to do with the final result? What does adding a player who "niggles" and has "size" change what happened for the better? It was the tactics we got badly wrong. Did we not give Hull enough penalties and offer poor mobility with the ball in hand or did you want more?

As for you Wes. Grow up! Why post on any forum if you are scared of coming across someone who doesn't share your views? Josie can close this site down anytime she wants to, but for me, those with their blind ignorance and refusal to see what actually goes on in front of their own eyes makes me tremble with fear for the future if you are "happy" and "content" with what you see