Fixes for the team

[DaveO]

Going back to the original subject of Fixes for the Team, the obvious one for me is drop Powell.

Most of the criticism seems to be directed towards Williams but Powell has not even had the odd flash of brilliance Williams has shown.

Never happen though.

[mjdodge13]

I think a lot of the trouble with our halves actually come down to have a very weak edge on both sides of the field. Have a look at all our back rowers and centres and try to figure out who's the danger? who is going to hit a ball at pace and take a couple of defenders to stop him? Its just very easy for defenders to stop George at the moment as teams know our attack structure and they don't have to fully commit to our runners.

If you think back to when this style of attacking was brought in by Madge (8yrs ago!) the following couple of seasons we had the likes of Gleeson, Hoffman, Joel, Harrison, Farrell, Carmont, Hock and a very Dangerous Full back in Tomkins all attacking on the edge. I'm not saying all of these players were the greatest ever but they were big and powerful runners that teams had to worry about........then throw in their a pair of quality centres and the old Sam at fullback. its a half backs dream!
(If you look back at Lima's 2 tries in the CC final they came about because Leeds were so scared about our edges they had to over commit leaving space inside)

Fast forward to present day and we simply don't have the personal but we still persist in trying to use the same tactics? We still have decent players like Bateman but he's a different style of player.

Maybe with all the rumours about Sam, Bateman, Gildart, FPN gone off the cap they are planning a big overhaul?!

[bertina]

I agree with most of what you say apart from the Williams bit.If a play maker depends on having a certain type of player along side him to play well he is not good enough.He should be able to take a game by the scruff of the neck and run the show, unfortunately he cant do that, just not good enough.

Totally agree. How on earth he is given marquee player status is beyond me. Bang average at best. The most overrated player at the club

[Wigan_forever1985]

one problem is Sam Powell IMO

at the moment we seem to have to move the whole team to accommodate him in games yet he weakens every position he plays in.

Half Back is a real issue, Georges form is a lot lower than its been and he has to do more when Powell is on the pitch because Powell offers so little.

Powell has the same issue Smith had (i think DaveO has stated this in the past) in that he offers so little variation that opposition dont even have to bother with him. He is slow, avg passer, avg kicker so they dont really need to cover him offer, he doesnt have a step or anything that makes him difficult to ignore.

If you want to keep Sam @ FB then Escare or Shorrocks need to come in @ 7 at least they offer a threat. If Powell must be in the team (which it seems under Wane is 100%) then backup hooker is were he does the least damage to the team. Start Tommy @ 9 and bring powell on later.

The other issue is still that Lockers is bound to miss games, if he didnt play against cats we would of lost end of story - but he highlighted how poor our halves are being the best one in the team

[moto748]

Personally I'm not giving up on Everyone's Whipping Boy Sam Powell just yet. It just seems to me there is a bit of a bandwagon going on here. I think his performances in the halves have been patchy, some pretty poor, some pretty good. He has got his share of try assists (although a lot less than Williams), and I think he deserves a longer spell back at what is supposed to be his 'proper' position before he is written off. Also, I rather suspect that for some, he is a convenient stick to beat Shaun Wane with. If you don't rate or respect SW, then the narrative that 'useless Powell' is his favourite and is un-droppable fits all too well.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Personally I'm not giving up on Everyone's Whipping Boy Sam Powell just yet. It just seems to me there is a bit of a bandwagon going on here. I think his performances in the halves have been patchy, some pretty poor, some pretty good. He has got his share of try assists (although a lot less than Williams), and I think he deserves a longer spell back at what is supposed to be his 'proper' position before he is written off. Also, I rather suspect that for some, he is a convenient stick to beat Shaun Wane with. If you don't rate or respect SW, then the narrative that 'useless Powell' is his favourite and is un-droppable fits all too well.

Wane has said previously Powell is the first name on his team sheet.

To counter your post saying that others are just using it to get at Wane tell us what you think Powell brings to the team, to justify his place. Remember its not good enough to say "give him chance to develop" the lad is 25 now he is not a rookie, the whole team dynamic has been arranged to accommodate him playing between 7/9.

So what is it Sam Powell has that Escare/Sam/Shorrocks cant better?

[josie andrews]

Powell played all his junior rugby at 7. He was pushed into playing 9 cos we got rid of Logan Tomkins & we needed someone to sub Mickey Mac.

Mickey got the bad leg/ankle break playing Brisbane in the 2016 WCC & Powell ended up playing 80minutes for the rest of the season. We won SL!

We got rid of Smith at 7 to accomodate Tommy, who should have been playing his preferred position at 9 but Mickey was here so no room. Whereas I would have put Mickey & Tommy at hooker & eased Powell back into 7.

Instead, we get rid of Mickey, move Tommy to 9, Powell to 7.

We also had the predicament of having Escare at 1 in Sam’s absence. This year we see a fit Sam eventually, who then ousts Morgan from FB!

So now we have two players, Morgan & Sam P, who we need to play but haven't got an 80 minute place for them at the same time, they are both 80 minute players IMO

So what do we do?? We start the swapping & changing scenario that is supposed to be our new attack system!

We have Sam T at 1, Sam P at 7, Tommy at 9. Then we start jigging about to enable Morgan to play cos IMO he shouldnt be left out of the team.

Next season, I can see;

Escare 1

Hardaker at 4 ?

George 6

Woods at 7

Powell/Ganson 9 with Tommy retiring.

Lockers to go round again at 13/Prop

If Bateman doesnt leave he will be 13 cos I think its a year too early for Morgan Smithies to play loose.

This is all my own opinion BTW ????????

[Wintergreen]

Powell played all his junior rugby at 7. He was pushed into playing 9 cos we got rid of Logan Tomkins & we needed someone to sub Mickey Mac.

Mickey got the bad leg/ankle break playing Brisbane in the 2016 WCC & Powell ended up playing 80minutes for the rest of the season. We won SL!

We got rid of Smith at 7 to accomodate Tommy, who should have been playing his preferred position at 9 but Mickey was here so no room. Whereas I would have put Mickey & Tommy at hooker & eased Powell back into 7.

Instead, we get rid of Mickey, move Tommy to 9, Powell to 7.

We also had the predicament of having Escare at 1 in Sam’s absence. This year we see a fit Sam eventually, who then ousts Morgan from FB!

So now we have two players, Morgan & Sam P, who we need to play but haven't got an 80 minute place for them at the same time, they are both 80 minute players IMO

So what do we do?? We start the swapping & changing scenario that is supposed to be our new attack system!

We have Sam T at 1, Sam P at 7, Tommy at 9. Then we start jigging about to enable Morgan to play cos IMO he shouldnt be left out of the team.

Next season, I can see;

Escare 1

Hardaker at 4 ?

George 6

Woods at 7

Powell/Ganson 9 with Tommy retiring.

Lockers to go round again at 13/Prop

If Bateman doesnt leave he will be 13 cos I think its a year too early for Morgan Smithies to play loose.

This is all my own opinion BTW ????????

Wouldn't disagree with that, but 2 comments:

1. Escare needs to up his defence

2. Bateman needs to get back to the player he was 2 years ago.

[moto748]

Wane has said previously Powell is the first name on his team sheet.

To counter your post saying that others are just using it to get at Wane tell us what you think Powell brings to the team, to justify his place. Remember its not good enough to say "give him chance to develop" the lad is 25 now he is not a rookie, the whole team dynamic has been arranged to accommodate him playing between 7/9.

So what is it Sam Powell has that Escare/Sam/Shorrocks cant better?

I said *some* people people may be using him to get at Wane. He's not a rookie, I agree, but the fact remains he has played relatively little at his preferred position in recent years. In my book, he has done some good things at 7 this season, and had some pretty ordinary performances too (as has Williams). I think he deserves a bit more of a break.

I just kinda feel that "Powell is rubbish" has become the conventional wisdom that people keep repeating. A similar point might be to compare the near unanimity round these parts at the start of the season that it was "obvious" that Sam T should play in the halves with Williams, with Escaré at full back. But now that we have had some very good results with Sam at full-back, this "obvious" fact seems to have been quietly forgotten.

As for Shorrocks, I don't think we've seen enough of him to judge. Same goes for Woods.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Wane has said previously Powell is the first name on his team sheet.

To counter your post saying that others are just using it to get at Wane tell us what you think Powell brings to the team, to justify his place. Remember its not good enough to say "give him chance to develop" the lad is 25 now he is not a rookie, the whole team dynamic has been arranged to accommodate him playing between 7/9.

So what is it Sam Powell has that Escare/Sam/Shorrocks cant better?

I said *some* people people may be using him to get at Wane. He's not a rookie, I agree, but the fact remains he has played relatively little at his preferred position in recent years. In my book, he has done some good things at 7 this season, and had some pretty ordinary performances too (as has Williams). I think he deserves a bit more of a break.

I just kinda feel that "Powell is rubbish" has become the conventional wisdom that people keep repeating. A similar point might be to compare the near unanimity round these parts at the start of the season that it was "obvious" that Sam T should play in the halves with Williams, with Escaré at full back. But now that we have had some very good results with Sam at full-back, this "obvious" fact seems to have been quietly forgotten.

As for Shorrocks, I don't think we've seen enough of him to judge. Same goes for Woods.

Id argue that Powell has had more than enough time in the first team regardless of his position to show he has something about him and failed to do it.

People will point to the season he covered for mickey mac and he did a great job that season covering - but the thing was that was it, he did ok covering in a position, he wasn't running the game, winning MOM after MOM or turning games on their head, he did really well in a difficult circumstance and i said at the time he deserved a lot of plaudits that season but more for making the 9 position work when we had no real options and maintaining a decent standard.

There is a big difference though between being great cover and being a good/great player. I have never come away from a game thinking "we couldn't of won that without Powell" i have many times for Williams/Sam T/Lockers even Smith had the odd game were he played the other team off the park. Sam P is consistent ill give him that but he is consistently average, thats the best compliment i can give him. You cannot say he is a game winner - because he just isn't, and this is a Wigan number 7 being a hard worker isn't enough!.