IL and KR

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
01tentpeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:18 pm

Re: IL and KR

Post by 01tentpeg » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:04 am

would just like to say I agree with the post ancientnloyal put on 5-3-19

DaveO
Posts: 13842
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Re: IL and KR

Post by DaveO » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:23 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:59 am
Wiganer Ted wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:16 am
Our recruitment has been rubbish, Waney's coaching was poor and we then went and won the GF and became champions.
How this season pans out we'll have to see and that's why I bought my season tickets as usual.
Would prefer this past ten seasons to the previous decade and how the next few years go we don't know but I suspect we'll do very nicely thank you.
Recruitment has been rubbish
Wanes style was poor
We won the GF

Those three comments dont go together.

Either recruitment is brilliant and despite Wanes coaching we won the GF

Or

Recruitment is rubbish and due to Wanes coaching we went on to win a GF

Im unhappy as most so far this season but if our recruitment and coach has been as poor as people on here suggest we wouldn't have the silverware we do since 2011

On paper Wire and Saints may be above us but there recruitment look good last year compared to ours how did that work?

Catalan have had very impressive team sheets over the years filled with NRL player but again how did that work?
How about considering the option you missed off your list? That with better recruitment and a better coach we'd have cleaned up?

Remember we were under Wane dumped out of the cup at least twice to very poor sides. We lost to Hull in the final and they were not a brilliant side either. Wanes teams for all their GF success have always had losses like the one to HKR at Leigh in the cup in them.

The standard in the sport overall has been dropping for at least 10 years IMO and rather than capitalise on this we have gone backwards from the high standards set in the previous two decades as our record shows.

Since 1998 when the competition switched to playoffs and a grand final we have won it four times, Saints five and Leeds eight. Wane won three of those four but McDermott who took over at Leeds the same year as Wane took charge of Wigan in 2011 won four for Leeds including a treble in 2015 of LLS, Cup and GF something we have never done in that era (though we did three times from 91 to 94). In the cup Leeds and Wigan have won twice since 2011 (with Maguires team in 2011 which had not started to lose top quality players and replace them with poor ones) but for us the last win was six years ago 2013 and we have appeared in one less final than Leeds (3 v 4).

So yes, you can point to last years win but the trend for Wigan has been less frequent success than our rivals because what has not happened is the revolution promised by the salary cap making it that anyone can win. Over the period from 1998 to 2018 the same sides that dominated pre playoffs continued to do so. It's just we had less success in this era than our rivals and in my opinion that has been down to a slow steady erosion of quality in the side and the coaching.

Caboosegg
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Re: IL and KR

Post by Caboosegg » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:46 pm

i didn't miss a third one off DaveO,

its simple, if recruitment and coaching was as bad as the constant detractors like yourself say we would not have won anything. you might not like Wanes style but hes was not a bad coach, his record shows that!

yes recruitment could have been better but as a Wigan fan we are aware the IL policy is to promote from the youth where possible, and he has done this while at the same time having a coach who go the most out of these players and won use plenty of silverware.

Wanes and IL tenure is not a failure. its also not perfect as just as you've stated maybe with better recruitment we could have cleaned up.. however that is just opinion and assumption where as our current level of success is fact.

IL has potentially pulled Edwards away from Union to coach, i see how many see this as being massive and will fix all out issues. At the same time if Edwards fails (which is a very real possibility Union isn't the same as league) then people are ALREADY blaming IL.. (not allowed player etc)

its a good job IL has thicker skin than me as he is dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't.
Happy Clapper Season ticket holder

fozzieskem
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Re: IL and KR

Post by fozzieskem » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:06 pm

Truth is Wane is a far better coach than Dave will ever give credit for,no matter what he won it’d never be enough,the team could play like the Harlem globetrotters of RL and it’d be too fancy.

I respect or try to everyone’s viewpoint on here but to deny Wane and the success he brought with what aren’t the best players ever to wear the jersey is nothing short of amazing.

The style of play his teams produced wasn’t the best at times but it was successful,time now though Wigan may enter a period of not so much success,certainly Wire and Saints looks to be the best of the bunch this season,I’ve no doubt Wigan could make the playoffs but we will see.

History will judge Wanes tenure at Wigan and it’ll stand up to close scrutiny I’m sure.

josie andrews
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Location: Wigan

Re: IL and KR

Post by josie andrews » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:16 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:06 pm
Truth is Wane is a far better coach than Dave will ever give credit for,no matter what he won it’d never be enough,the team could play like the Harlem globetrotters of RL and it’d be too fancy.

I respect or try to everyone’s viewpoint on here but to deny Wane and the success he brought with what aren’t the best players ever to wear the jersey is nothing short of amazing.

The style of play his teams produced wasn’t the best at times but it was successful,time now though Wigan may enter a period of not so much success,certainly Wire and Saints looks to be the best of the bunch this season,I’ve no doubt Wigan could make the playoffs but we will see.

History will judge Wanes tenure at Wigan and it’ll stand up to close scrutiny I’m sure.
Well said Fozzieskem 😊🏉🍒⚪️
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage.

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medlocke
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Re: IL and KR

Post by medlocke » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:40 am

Sam Kasiano to Catalans, Yet another great signing for Super League, Meanwhile at Wigan :shock:

morley pie eater
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Re: IL and KR

Post by morley pie eater » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:58 am

Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:46 pm
i didn't miss a third one off DaveO,

its simple, if recruitment and coaching was as bad as the constant detractors like yourself say we would not have won anything. you might not like Wanes style but hes was not a bad coach, his record shows that!

yes recruitment could have been better but as a Wigan fan we are aware the IL policy is to promote from the youth where possible, and he has done this while at the same time having a coach who go the most out of these players and won use plenty of silverware.

Wanes and IL tenure is not a failure. its also not perfect as just as you've stated maybe with better recruitment we could have cleaned up.. however that is just opinion and assumption where as our current level of success is fact.

IL has potentially pulled Edwards away from Union to coach, i see how many see this as being massive and will fix all out issues. At the same time if Edwards fails (which is a very real possibility Union isn't the same as league) then people are ALREADY blaming IL.. (not allowed player etc)

its a good job IL has thicker skin than me as he is dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't.
This

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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: IL and KR

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:00 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:46 pm
i didn't miss a third one off DaveO,

its simple, if recruitment and coaching was as bad as the constant detractors like yourself say we would not have won anything. you might not like Wanes style but hes was not a bad coach, his record shows that!

yes recruitment could have been better but as a Wigan fan we are aware the IL policy is to promote from the youth where possible, and he has done this while at the same time having a coach who go the most out of these players and won use plenty of silverware.

Wanes and IL tenure is not a failure. its also not perfect as just as you've stated maybe with better recruitment we could have cleaned up.. however that is just opinion and assumption where as our current level of success is fact.

IL has potentially pulled Edwards away from Union to coach, i see how many see this as being massive and will fix all out issues. At the same time if Edwards fails (which is a very real possibility Union isn't the same as league) then people are ALREADY blaming IL.. (not allowed player etc)

its a good job IL has thicker skin than me as he is dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't.
This is a very well constructed post and it forced me to question some of my own views (as all good debate should)

I think there is a wider issue one that cant be firmly led at Wigans door but i think some people (myself included) are laying a bit of their disgruntlement with Rugby League at the door of Wigan and thats both unfair and fair at the same time

I look at football and you notice one thing, the top teams aim to dominate, City for example spend vast amounts of money in dominating, they want to have a squad capable of winning all the trophies and beat everyone in every game. I know there is a lot more money in football for them to do that but my point is that in Rugby that hasnt happened since Wigan pre supergleague. The rest of the league then have to up their game to match city or accept they will not be able to win, this normally results in a top 4-5 teams really upping their game

Rugby League has become more like cycling in that the teams are acting like a peloton everyone conserving themselves in a pack no one team stretching too far out. Problem is we are slowing down and down, and no one is making that break to try and win. All teams seem content to try and get something out their season, no team seems hell bent on dominating, you maybe could argue Wire have done the most to change their fortunes but its a labourer approach. Rather than a trend setting team you get a mush of average teams. Can anyone honestly say one team is the "standard" to meet in rugby league? Wigan once were leeds probably the closest in superleague era but in the last 2-3 years? there is no bench mark

So back to topic if you wanted the best for rugby league and the standards to improve IL strategy and Shaun Wanes coach isnt the way to do that. However you cannot argue that IL has played the way the superleague works very well, hes kept us in the peloton towards the front and always there and there abouts.

I guess its whether thats all you want from your club and your sport?
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

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Fujiman
Posts: 2800
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Re: IL and KR

Post by Fujiman » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:45 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:00 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:46 pm
i didn't miss a third one off DaveO,

its simple, if recruitment and coaching was as bad as the constant detractors like yourself say we would not have won anything. you might not like Wanes style but hes was not a bad coach, his record shows that!

yes recruitment could have been better but as a Wigan fan we are aware the IL policy is to promote from the youth where possible, and he has done this while at the same time having a coach who go the most out of these players and won use plenty of silverware.

Wanes and IL tenure is not a failure. its also not perfect as just as you've stated maybe with better recruitment we could have cleaned up.. however that is just opinion and assumption where as our current level of success is fact.

IL has potentially pulled Edwards away from Union to coach, i see how many see this as being massive and will fix all out issues. At the same time if Edwards fails (which is a very real possibility Union isn't the same as league) then people are ALREADY blaming IL.. (not allowed player etc)

its a good job IL has thicker skin than me as he is dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't.
This is a very well constructed post and it forced me to question some of my own views (as all good debate should)

I think there is a wider issue one that cant be firmly led at Wigans door but i think some people (myself included) are laying a bit of their disgruntlement with Rugby League at the door of Wigan and thats both unfair and fair at the same time

I look at football and you notice one thing, the top teams aim to dominate, City for example spend vast amounts of money in dominating, they want to have a squad capable of winning all the trophies and beat everyone in every game. I know there is a lot more money in football for them to do that but my point is that in Rugby that hasnt happened since Wigan pre supergleague. The rest of the league then have to up their game to match city or accept they will not be able to win, this normally results in a top 4-5 teams really upping their game

Rugby League has become more like cycling in that the teams are acting like a peloton everyone conserving themselves in a pack no one team stretching too far out. Problem is we are slowing down and down, and no one is making that break to try and win. All teams seem content to try and get something out their season, no team seems hell bent on dominating, you maybe could argue Wire have done the most to change their fortunes but its a labourer approach. Rather than a trend setting team you get a mush of average teams. Can anyone honestly say one team is the "standard" to meet in rugby league? Wigan once were leeds probably the closest in superleague era but in the last 2-3 years? there is no bench mark

So back to topic if you wanted the best for rugby league and the standards to improve IL strategy and Shaun Wanes coach isnt the way to do that. However you cannot argue that IL has played the way the superleague works very well, hes kept us in the peloton towards the front and always there and there abouts.

I guess its whether thats all you want from your club and your sport?
Good post.
"At Wigan, where I played," Edwards said after Saturday's last leg victory over France. "it was permissable not to be in the line if you had a serious injury or a broken leg. Otherwise you had to be there."

ancientnloyal
Posts: 13467
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:33 pm

Re: IL and KR

Post by ancientnloyal » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:59 pm

Just to say, what a good discussion!

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