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Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:19 pm
by nathan_rugby
DaveO wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:18 pm
Never really understood why the Aussies come looking anyway given they produce so many of their own. The fact Canberra looks set to become an ex-pats club seems very strange. Don’t they have their own production line?

As to why we can’t keep players I think the fundamental problem is every player has a price IL is willing to sell at.

The idea he will hold them to contracts seems non existent and every player who signs a top deal automatically wants to tack on a get out clause.

So far he’s seemed to think letting them go after a couple of years and trying to include a return clause is good business when in my view all it does is encourage them to leave in the first place and we only see them back if they fail or are homesick.

If a player signs a four year deal I’d like it to mean four years with no expectation of a release beforehand. If at the end of it they leave for Australia or anywhere else at the end of the contract for free, so be it. If the contracts were run like this they could concentrate on playing rather than thinking if an NRL club will take them. This would also inform other clubs not to bother even asking about our players.

Can’t see this happening at Wigan with IL in charge as I don’t think he can afford to hold players to contracts. Selling a top player every season or so looks like part of his business plan for the club very much like a lower league soccer club relies on producing players the wealthy clubs will buy.
How IL and KR cannot see how poor this strategy has been is beyond me.

Joel Tomkins - Never regained close to the form he showed before departing for RU.
Sam Tomkins - Never regained close to the form he showed before departing for NZ Warriors.
Joe Burgess - Absolutely know where near close when fit and has spent the last 2 years injured.
Lee Mossop - Terrible on return
Tommy L - Probably playing similar to how he did. Limited by playing at 7 rather than 9
Sarginson - Average before and average after

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:00 pm
by ManxWarrior
So it was mentioned on this thread about why other clubs don’t loose their junior talent; basically because they say no. The NRL has looked at Makinson in recent months, but Saints instantly said he was under contract and that is that, where as we tend to be open to negotiation.

The other difference we have experienced in recent years is success. In fairness to those leaving, what else can they achieve playing in Super League.

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:14 pm
by nathan_rugby
ManxWarrior wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:00 pm
So it was mentioned on this thread about why other clubs don’t loose their junior talent; basically because they say no. The NRL has looked at Makinson in recent months, but Saints instantly said he was under contract and that is that, where as we tend to be open to negotiation.

The other difference we have experienced in recent years is success. In fairness to those leaving, what else can they achieve playing in Super League.
Exactly - Leeds managed to keep: Watkins, Senior, Ablett, JJB, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield for a considerable number of years.

Saints managing to keep hold of Makinson, Walmsley, Percival, Roby

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:57 pm
by DaveO
ManxWarrior wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:00 pm

The other difference we have experienced in recent years is success. In fairness to those leaving, what else can they achieve playing in Super League.
Leeds have (or should I say had given a lot of them have retired) players who experienced winning the GF several times. They didn't feel the need to move to the NRL. It's as if Wigan under IL instill this desire to move on as the logical next step!

The problem is not just retaining players, it's not even bringing them in. Wire and Saints have signed good overseas players on relatively short term deals. They seem to do this with no expectation they will be here long enough for a testimonial.

They have seemed to have decided that with the salary cap the way it is for SL, if you can pay a fair old whack for a top player for a couple of seasons that is better than signing a junior player ona five year deal who may make it or may not and if he does will be a player they end up selling to the annoyance of fans.

If we signed a top class half back for say two years as marquee I think I have come to the conclusion given the constraints of SL such as the salary cap and not having a reserve side that such short term thinking is the way to go.

It is counter intuitive to give up on the production line but all that seems to do is result in most of them out on loan at championship clubs or on DR and the ones who do make it to the top being picked off by the NRL. We spend a fortune for other clubs benefit.

May as well bring in someone from the NRL for two years where there is no likelihood of that happening.

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:01 pm
by pedro
in the last 2 years the cap has nearly doubled in Aus

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:28 pm
by ancientnloyal
Would you rather sign Barrett for 2 years
or give someone like Josh woods a 5 year deal?


Exactly.

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:10 pm
by nathan_rugby
ancientnloyal wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:28 pm
Would you rather sign Barrett for 2 years
or give someone like Josh woods a 5 year deal?


Exactly.
Some of the best overseas imports were only here for a short period of time.

Barrett, FInch, Sandow, Barba etc.

Re: Is our Youth too good? & Why can we not keep our best?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:48 pm
by ancientnloyal
Ryan Hoffman, Trent Barrett, Blake Austin for now... maybe that’s the way we should do it

Edited