How do we avoid relegation?

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Caboosegg
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by Caboosegg » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:22 am

warriors01 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:02 am
I think we all understand that IL needs to pay some contracts off. But he either loses money on that or next season if we get relegated he will lose a dam sight more in sponsors and season ticket holders some he might never get back.
Dunno in the championship we'd sell out robin park. And just think how cheap a season ticket could be.
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EagleEyePie
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by EagleEyePie » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:55 am

What we need to avoid relegation is to start winning. Our best hope of doing that is to actually getting some key players back in the pack.

The teams we've fielded in the last few games shouldn't really have been winning when you compare the strengths of the sides. We did amazingly well against Catalans but a young pack won't keep winning. We've actually done well just to lose by respectable scores against Cas and Wakefield. It's also worth remembering that those are places we've been to with much stronger sides and lost quite often recently.

Making big changes now isn't going to help when one of the biggest issues we've had this year has been a lack of consistency in terms of team selection, particularly when it comes to key players in the pack.

At present we can't do anything about Hamlin, so there's not much point in hoping the club will sack him. He's not been found guilty of anything yet.

There's the suggestion that we get rid of fringe players to free up some space because we have a huge squad of players that don't play, but the majority of those aren't even counting on the cap.

According to the salary cap rules on the RFL website the top 25 earners always count on the cap regardless of whether they play. In addition, anyone who plays in a salary cap relevant match in that year also has their wages count - unless they were aged 20 or under on 31/08/18.

If you assume our top 25 contains all the usual suspects, plus the likes of Hankinson, Wells and Shorrocks as the next oldest/most experienced players then the likes of Partington, Paisley, Byrne, Smithies and Joe Shorrocks wouldn't count on the cap. In fact no one else further down the squad would except for Liam Forsyth, but he's out on a season long loan and hasn't played this year.

If the club is being honest that its currently at the cap limit then all of that cap is being spent on the top 25 players so those are the only players we could really allow to leave in order to free up some space for new signings.

What that does mean is we're almost certainly being caught out by paying well over the odds for established first team players. Having 4 wingers probably earning wages you'd expect of established first team players is one issue. Wing is the position where you can allow yourself to have less cover because usually other outside backs can fill in for injuries.

You benefit more from having a strong pack of forwards but what we've got is a pack full of talented, key forwards who are frequently injured (Lockers, Flower, Farrell, Greenwood), established players who are probably earning more than they are worth simply by playing in a successful side (Clubb, Powell, Tautai) and hard workers who aren't top players but frequently play first team (Navarrete, Isa, Hamlin).

It's hard to see who we would be able to offload this year to free up significant space. Maybe we could loan players out. Marshall would be a decent bet when he returns to fitness as he's our 4th best winger when everyone is fully fit. We'll use Davies and Budgie and then if anyone gets injured Escare, Hankinson, Mullen, Brown etc come into the mix. It would allow us to bring in a bit more strength in the pack because looking at the club we've faced who have had most of their injuries in the backs, it's much easier to cope with than having a weak pack of forwards.

shaunedwardsfanclub
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by shaunedwardsfanclub » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:26 am

EagleEyePie wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:55 am
What we need to avoid relegation is to start winning. Our best hope of doing that is to actually getting some key players back in the pack.

The teams we've fielded in the last few games shouldn't really have been winning when you compare the strengths of the sides. We did amazingly well against Catalans but a young pack won't keep winning. We've actually done well just to lose by respectable scores against Cas and Wakefield. It's also worth remembering that those are places we've been to with much stronger sides and lost quite often recently.

Making big changes now isn't going to help when one of the biggest issues we've had this year has been a lack of consistency in terms of team selection, particularly when it comes to key players in the pack.

At present we can't do anything about Hamlin, so there's not much point in hoping the club will sack him. He's not been found guilty of anything yet.

There's the suggestion that we get rid of fringe players to free up some space because we have a huge squad of players that don't play, but the majority of those aren't even counting on the cap.

According to the salary cap rules on the RFL website the top 25 earners always count on the cap regardless of whether they play. In addition, anyone who plays in a salary cap relevant match in that year also has their wages count - unless they were aged 20 or under on 31/08/18.

If you assume our top 25 contains all the usual suspects, plus the likes of Hankinson, Wells and Shorrocks as the next oldest/most experienced players then the likes of Partington, Paisley, Byrne, Smithies and Joe Shorrocks wouldn't count on the cap. In fact no one else further down the squad would except for Liam Forsyth, but he's out on a season long loan and hasn't played this year.

If the club is being honest that its currently at the cap limit then all of that cap is being spent on the top 25 players so those are the only players we could really allow to leave in order to free up some space for new signings.

What that does mean is we're almost certainly being caught out by paying well over the odds for established first team players. Having 4 wingers probably earning wages you'd expect of established first team players is one issue. Wing is the position where you can allow yourself to have less cover because usually other outside backs can fill in for injuries.

You benefit more from having a strong pack of forwards but what we've got is a pack full of talented, key forwards who are frequently injured (Lockers, Flower, Farrell, Greenwood), established players who are probably earning more than they are worth simply by playing in a successful side (Clubb, Powell, Tautai) and hard workers who aren't top players but frequently play first team (Navarrete, Isa, Hamlin).

It's hard to see who we would be able to offload this year to free up significant space. Maybe we could loan players out. Marshall would be a decent bet when he returns to fitness as he's our 4th best winger when everyone is fully fit. We'll use Davies and Budgie and then if anyone gets injured Escare, Hankinson, Mullen, Brown etc come into the mix. It would allow us to bring in a bit more strength in the pack because looking at the club we've faced who have had most of their injuries in the backs, it's much easier to cope with than having a weak pack of forwards.
Forwards win matches.
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morley pie eater
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by morley pie eater » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:54 pm

1. George had a great game v Wakefield but still gets slagged off on here?

2. In answer to the question, give Lammy 2 more months or so and if we're still in the same position, bring back SW.

moto748
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by moto748 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:28 pm

But of course there is very real doubt about whether Lam or Wane would want to continue. I agree dropping our best player in GW would be crazy. No need to panic yet.

old hooker
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by old hooker » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 pm

Levrier wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:24 am
We could possibly get rid of Hamlin now but the others named are under contract so unless you can persuade someone to offer them a better job you cannot get rid of them. I cannot understand why anyone can fail to understand that simple idea. If IL wants to throw money around we could deregister players whilst still paying them but that is different.
Two points in your post, firstly why should we get rid of Hamlin when we signed a serial offender in Hardaker?,and iL wanting to throw his money around?that will never happen.

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medlocke
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by medlocke » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:45 pm

old hooker wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 pm
Levrier wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:24 am
We could possibly get rid of Hamlin now but the others named are under contract so unless you can persuade someone to offer them a better job you cannot get rid of them. I cannot understand why anyone can fail to understand that simple idea. If IL wants to throw money around we could deregister players whilst still paying them but that is different.
Two points in your post, firstly why should we get rid of Hamlin when we signed a serial offender in Hardaker?,and iL wanting to throw his money around?that will never happen.
Isn't he off contract at the end off the season?, If so what is the point of keeping him, It's obvious we won't be seeing him again

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medlocke
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by medlocke » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:46 pm

Waney left on his own accord, why would he come back, Nothings changed, It's gotten worse, Let it go ffs

pedro
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by pedro » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:51 pm

old hooker wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 pm
Levrier wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:24 am
We could possibly get rid of Hamlin now but the others named are under contract so unless you can persuade someone to offer them a better job you cannot get rid of them. I cannot understand why anyone can fail to understand that simple idea. If IL wants to throw money around we could deregister players whilst still paying them but that is different.
Two points in your post, firstly why should we get rid of Hamlin when we signed a serial offender in Hardaker?,and iL wanting to throw his money around?that will never happen.
because hamlin played for us at the time and hardaker didnt?...not hard really
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Levrier
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Re: How do we avoid relegation?

Post by Levrier » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:59 pm

medlocke wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:45 pm
old hooker wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 pm
Levrier wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:24 am
We could possibly get rid of Hamlin now but the others named are under contract so unless you can persuade someone to offer them a better job you cannot get rid of them. I cannot understand why anyone can fail to understand that simple idea. If IL wants to throw money around we could deregister players whilst still paying them but that is different.
Two points in your post, firstly why should we get rid of Hamlin when we signed a serial offender in Hardaker?,and iL wanting to throw his money around?that will never happen.
Isn't he off contract at the end off the season?, If so what is the point of keeping him, It's obvious we won't be seeing him again
I did not say should just could. If he is guilty and gets a ban his contract may well be up before hand and secondly even if we did want to renew we would be facing sever restrictions for perhaps two years. It would be more a case of seeing where he is at in two years time and then talking. I believe that a person who acknowledges their mistakes should not be hung out to dry and deserves a chance, unfortunately this is the digital age where idiots are too quick to bay for blood.

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