Don't read if you dont like stats

[morley pie eater]

Some stats which may reveal any of our strengths and weaknesses.

First team stats:

• Wigan are 7th in Metres Gained, which more-or-less reflects our league position.

• But, in Average Gain, we are 11th above only London.
  We're also 11th in Clean Breaks and 11th in Offloads, and we rank 9th in Tackle Busts.

• We do come 1st in one category: Tackles! It's usual for teams at the bottom end of the league table to make more tackles (Saints are "bottom" of the Tackles table).

• In Missed Tackles and in Tries and also in Penalties Conceded we are 8th - again, reflecting our league placing.

Now individual stats:

• Willie Isa is our top tackler with 446, making him 7th equal in SL., and +47 on James Roby.

• For Tackle Busts, we have 3 of the top 16 in SL: 5th Zak H on 67, 12th George W on 56, and 16th Gildart on 53. (Top two in SL are Fifita on 89 and Hurrell on 71.)

• Metres Gained sees Gildart 4th with 1625, and Hardaker 20th on 1362 is our 2nd best metre maker.

From the above, I'd suggest our low rankings in Ave Gain, Clean Breaks and, to some extent Tackle Busts, suggests either effort with ball in hand is lacking or our strategy is failing to test opponents defence enough. It would be interesting to see how many metres our forwards have made compared with other teams, but this isn't a readily available stat.

There must be some of you who are familiar with stats - please post your opinions.

Finally, if you're one of the people who thinks stats are a waste of time, you are fully entitled to your opinion, but please read the subject line and try to find someone who wants to hear it (again).

[DaveO]

I don't think stats are a waste of time. I quite like them but you have to interpret them within the context of what you see.

You give a good example of that yourself. We are making a lot of tackles because we are defending a lot and Saints are the opposite.

Given that and also the different positions played I am not sure why it's relevant to compare Isa to Roby.

My interpretation of the stats you have posted is they paint a negative picture for Wigan. Too much tackling (so too much defending) and low down on the attacking stats.

It does seem much harder to find the stats this season. Even last season the player stats omitted a crucial bit of information. The number of games played. So you could not work out the averages which meant that really, the stats were nigh on useless as a comparison tool.

[southportcdm]

Depressing watching last night. Very subdued atmosphere and poor crowd. We struggled to beat a good 'championship-type side who appeared well motivated and better coached than us. I don't know what the problem is but even with our 'average' squad and an inexperienced coach we should have been capable of beating London comfortably. The two points were important but we're not making progress and it looks like it will be a huge task to turn things around. We need a big shake up and Mr Lenagan needs to spend lots of cash if he wants to challenge for honours again. I'm starting to think that Waney saw all this coming. I'd love to hear what he really thinks about the situation.

[morley pie eater]

I agree with your comments, Dave.

Last night's game may not be the best example as it was the 4th game in 2 weeks (though same for both sides), but we looked ponderous and devoid of ideas or creativity on attack. And this is exactly the picture given by the stats for the season so far.

Being the positive type, I've given Lam the benefit of the doubt so far - new coach, new methods and injuries/key players gone etc. But even I am beginning to think that he's not up to the job.

Putting aside the calls for better players, it seems that we're not using our existing resources effectively, and that surely points to the coach.

[DaveO]

I agree with your comments, Dave.

Last night's game may not be the best example as it was the 4th game in 2 weeks (though same for both sides), but we looked ponderous and devoid of ideas or creativity on attack. And this is exactly the picture given by the stats for the season so far.

Being the positive type, I've given Lam the benefit of the doubt so far - new coach, new methods and injuries/key players gone etc. But even I am beginning to think that he's not up to the job.

Putting aside the calls for better players, it seems that we're not using our existing resources effectively, and that surely points to the coach.

I am not convinced about Lam either but I am not sure what he is supposed to do with the pack we have. The two props who most would say are our two first choice Clubb and Flower have been in and out of the side with injury and even when they play they seem shadows of their former selves. Flower looked far form fit last night. In the back row we have Greenwood and a.n.other since Faz got injured and with Lockers a bit part player who is as likely to come on as a prop as anything else our 13 is newly promoted Smithies. And you are well aware of my thoughts on the no 9 slot.

I suspect statistically our packs performance will reflect this lacklustre bunch.

[pearsy]

Where are we on penalties conceded?

[nathan_rugby]

I agree with your comments, Dave.

Last night's game may not be the best example as it was the 4th game in 2 weeks (though same for both sides), but we looked ponderous and devoid of ideas or creativity on attack. And this is exactly the picture given by the stats for the season so far.

Being the positive type, I've given Lam the benefit of the doubt so far - new coach, new methods and injuries/key players gone etc. But even I am beginning to think that he's not up to the job.

Putting aside the calls for better players, it seems that we're not using our existing resources effectively, and that surely points to the coach.

I am not convinced about Lam either but I am not sure what he is supposed to do with the pack we have. The two props who most would say are our two first choice Clubb and Flower have been in and out of the side with injury and even when they play they seem shadows of their former selves. Flower looked far form fit last night. In the back row we have Greenwood and a.n.other since Faz got injured and with Lockers a bit part player who is as likely to come on as a prop as anything else our 13 is newly promoted Smithies. And you are well aware of my thoughts on the no 9 slot.

I suspect statistically our packs performance will reflect this lacklustre bunch.

Whilst I agree with your post, I still think we should be seeing more from some of the players we have in there and we should be getting the basics right.

- We are so slow at the POTB (Getting the ball out to forwards.)
- Our forwards run so slow, laboured and do not hit the ball at pace. Always catching behind the gain line.
- Our 6 & 7 often catch the ball stood still and pass it out stood still. The reason we never create space is because its easy for the defence to just ball watch and slide across.
- Rarely do we have optional runners and two lines of attack. (Forwards and Backs.)

I noticed one run yesterday where TT hit it up at pace and then passed it onto Ben Flower who attempted to hit a gap between the B and C (Or maybe C and D defenders). It was so simple and effective, I am not sure why we do not do it more. Its basic forward play and basic tactics.

[morley pie eater]

Where are we on penalties conceded?

We were 8th on penalties conceded before this weekend's games. You'd expect a side that spends much of its time defending to concede more pens, so I suppose 8th is "reasonable"?

[acwrlfc]

@Southportdcm I know exactly how Waney feels as I was in his company at a major sporting event and had a 20 minute conversation with him surrounding his departure and his current role with Scotland and as ive said in previous posts some of his comments both surprised and alarmed me. But the big thing that stood out for me was that the club (IL) could not match his desire to be a champion side every year but they seemed content just to be in and around it. Dare I say this lack of ambition is now plain for all to see and mediocrity is creeping in. He also mentioned about the decline of in house standards.

What I would say, and I will admit, I wasn't one of his biggest fans, was his continued love and passion for the Club, it was evident