Versus Salford

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
pearsy
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:21 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by pearsy » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:41 am

It's already been said there will be no more signings so some of the big earners will have to go or do the descent thing and put the club first and retire

Mickw
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:22 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by Mickw » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:17 pm

pearsy wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:41 am
It's already been said there will be no more signings so some of the big earners will have to go or do the descent thing and put the club first and retire
Ha ha ,yeah right as we all know that's never happening, if I were Jackson Hastings I'd do a Shaun Edward's rather than try and single handedly turn this clique round.

BriH
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:12 am

Re: Versus Salford

Post by BriH » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:38 pm

For what it's worth, here is my take on the last 2 matches and the season in general.
Difficult first half of the season but then we improved ending at 2nd. I think that flattered us and realistically we should have been 5th or 6th if the likes of Wire, Cas and Hull had performed.
So our expectations in the play-offs were really unrealistic.
We were found out in the last 2 matches. I honestly think that the team as a whole is nackered and needs some R&R.
I also believe that some of our squad aren't good enough. Let's be honest, you can't have 'part-timers' in the fully professional game. That, I'm afraid sums up SoL these days. Others have singled out some players and I agree, for example, Tommy L: too old.
Finally, I'm not convinced AL is the Coach who will take us forward next Season! I have no doubt who was the better Coach last night. Please IL can you persuade him to come to Wigan? ;) ;)

DaveO
Posts: 14415
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by DaveO » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:10 pm

CheshireWarrior wrote:
DaveO wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:31 pm
CheshireWarrior wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:51 pm
Personally I'm relieved we haven't made Old Trafford. No matter how we reflect on tonight or the whole season, we have been dominated by Saints in every game this season......can anyone truly say hand on heart if we beat Salford tonight they really believed 100% we could be Saints?
No but but we should have still got to the final when we finished 2nd. You never want to not be in finals even if the prospect for victory seems poor. There are no excuses for that failure.
As for Lam, I agree with others who are of the opinion that he has entered the club under difficult circumstances. Bateman, Tomkins, Sutton are loses for sure, but the club and squad has had to adapt with a different coach and style/ideas. The Edwards saga didn't help but its pointless asking 'what if' regarding Wane and Edwards.

To finish in 2nd place after EVERYTHING this season suggests Lam has stabilised the club. 2020 is the test, he knows he has the job now and he has 12 months experience behind him!
Why would a club that were champions the season before need stabilising? At the end of last season everyone was saying Greenwood was Bateman's replacement, Hardaker was Sam T's (Hardaker has actually IMO been a success) and Bullock for Sutton. It's not like we didn't even attempt to replace these players.
Why should we have got to the final finishing second? Your correct there are no excuses for that failure but like against Stains, Salford played with more pace and with ball in hand looked far more creative especially with Hastings running the show!

2018 was considerably different to 2019! Before you look at anything else 'the wane style/culture' was always going to be different to Lams ideas/style! Multiple player related scandals, Lam himself having his bags packed (thinking Edwards was coming in) for the majority of the season and changes in players......that would suggest not the smoothest of jobs to walk into! I agree pound for pound Greenwood is a good replacement for Batty but has been injured lots, Bullock has really impressed me especially stepping up into SL but Hardaker IMO has been a success more 'safe'. I wonder if Escare had been given a change to actually compete with Zak would we have seen a different side to Zak but I do think he has been consistently safe at FB. As for Lam full credit to him, he knuckled down hard and to take us to second shows that the players clearly buy into him. Last night wasn't a major surprise to me (especially after the Saints performance) but we should have won!
We should have got to the final because in this top five system it’s statistically rare for sides outside the top two to contest the final. It gives the teams finishing first and second a big advantage which Wigan failed to take advantage of. To lose both semi finals is pathetic. Particularly 4-28 at home in the second. Absolutely pathetic.

There are far too many excuses being made for Lam and this side. We did not start the season in crisis.

On paper they were more than good enough to beat Salford and given the season all boils down to these games it’s irrelevant how many injuries we had earlier in the year. We had enough fit players to pick what anyone would recognise as a first team. The fact Lam chose to pick an unfit Powell and leave a big man like Greenwood out are his fault an no one else’s.

The fact we finished second is absolutely nothing to write home about of itself. We played Hull and Wire at the right time to pick up points and scraped together some less than convincing performances to pick up points elsewhere. None of that would have mattered if after finishing second the team and coach had sufficient quality to take advantage of it. Instead the playoffs exposed the team and coach what they are. Not good enough.

In past eras losing two semi finals would have cost Lam his job. Not just because losing two semi finals is not good enough but because people like Maurice Lindsay would spot the mistakes he’s made and they would use the losses as the excuse to bin off an inadequate coach. I have no confidence he will make use of the extra resources available to him next season.

It won’t be the first time we have had top players here without a coach who can utilise them properly. Barrett’s time under Noble springs to mind. You can’t just buy top players and chuck them onto a pitch under any old coach and hope they perform.

nathan_rugby
Posts: 1824
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by nathan_rugby » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:20 pm

BriH wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:38 pm
For what it's worth, here is my take on the last 2 matches and the season in general.
Difficult first half of the season but then we improved ending at 2nd. I think that flattered us and realistically we should have been 5th or 6th if the likes of Wire, Cas and Hull had performed.
So our expectations in the play-offs were really unrealistic.
We were found out in the last 2 matches. I honestly think that the team as a whole is nackered and needs some R&R.
I also believe that some of our squad aren't good enough. Let's be honest, you can't have 'part-timers' in the fully professional game. That, I'm afraid sums up SoL these days. Others have singled out some players and I agree, for example, Tommy L: too old.
Finally, I'm not convinced AL is the Coach who will take us forward next Season! I have no doubt who was the better Coach last night. Please IL can you persuade him to come to Wigan? ;) ;)
What a load of rubbish saying we should have been 5th or 6th had Wire, Cas and Hull performed. The league table doesn’t lie. They started off well, they didn’t sustain it. We started off badly and finished strong.

It’s a long enough season to truly say that finish up where you deserve to.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."

CheshireWarrior
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:58 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by CheshireWarrior » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:58 pm

DaveO wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:10 pm
CheshireWarrior wrote:
DaveO wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:31 pm


No but but we should have still got to the final when we finished 2nd. You never want to not be in finals even if the prospect for victory seems poor. There are no excuses for that failure.



Why would a club that were champions the season before need stabilising? At the end of last season everyone was saying Greenwood was Bateman's replacement, Hardaker was Sam T's (Hardaker has actually IMO been a success) and Bullock for Sutton. It's not like we didn't even attempt to replace these players.
Why should we have got to the final finishing second? Your correct there are no excuses for that failure but like against Stains, Salford played with more pace and with ball in hand looked far more creative especially with Hastings running the show!

2018 was considerably different to 2019! Before you look at anything else 'the wane style/culture' was always going to be different to Lams ideas/style! Multiple player related scandals, Lam himself having his bags packed (thinking Edwards was coming in) for the majority of the season and changes in players......that would suggest not the smoothest of jobs to walk into! I agree pound for pound Greenwood is a good replacement for Batty but has been injured lots, Bullock has really impressed me especially stepping up into SL but Hardaker IMO has been a success more 'safe'. I wonder if Escare had been given a change to actually compete with Zak would we have seen a different side to Zak but I do think he has been consistently safe at FB. As for Lam full credit to him, he knuckled down hard and to take us to second shows that the players clearly buy into him. Last night wasn't a major surprise to me (especially after the Saints performance) but we should have won!
We should have got to the final because in this top five system it’s statistically rare for sides outside the top two to contest the final. It gives the teams finishing first and second a big advantage which Wigan failed to take advantage of. To lose both semi finals is pathetic. Particularly 4-28 at home in the second. Absolutely pathetic.

There are far too many excuses being made for Lam and this side. We did not start the season in crisis.

On paper they were more than good enough to beat Salford and given the season all boils down to these games it’s irrelevant how many injuries we had earlier in the year. We had enough fit players to pick what anyone would recognise as a first team. The fact Lam chose to pick an unfit Powell and leave a big man like Greenwood out are his fault an no one else’s.

The fact we finished second is absolutely nothing to write home about of itself. We played Hull and Wire at the right time to pick up points and scraped together some less than convincing performances to pick up points elsewhere. None of that would have mattered if after finishing second the team and coach had sufficient quality to take advantage of it. Instead the playoffs exposed the team and coach what they are. Not good enough.

In past eras losing two semi finals would have cost Lam his job. Not just because losing two semi finals is not good enough but because people like Maurice Lindsay would spot the mistakes he’s made and they would use the losses as the excuse to bin off an inadequate coach. I have no confidence he will make use of the extra resources available to him next season.

It won’t be the first time we have had top players here without a coach who can utilise them properly. Barrett’s time under Noble springs to mind. You can’t just buy top players and chuck them onto a pitch under any old coach and hope they perform.
Statistically rare? What does that mean? When I reflect on seasons gone by, teams have won League Leaders shield and haven't made the Grand Final or lost in the final! I also recall Leeds Rhinos winning SL from 5th in the league years ago (there or there about). 1st place is irrelevant, it was about 2nd and 3rd this season! It simply boils down to the fact that Salford had more desire, enthusiasm and effective game management.

I'm not suggesting the season started in crisis (if I used that word previously), what I am saying is that we cant escape the fact that after having Wane for so long (including the fact he developed the majority of the players from academy level), it would be a challenge for ANY coach. Taking into consideration the shameful conduct of players and the fact Lams future was uncertain for a lengthy period, surely this had an impact and this couldn't be changed in the space of a month or two!

I'm glad we have stuck with Lam and not sacked him like Furner at Leeds! Shaun Wane was open about his departure being his call! Its pointless keeping somebody who doesn't want to be there and Shaun Edwards hasn't coached in League! Who would you have appointed at the start of 2019 who would have performed better?

I agree with you, playing an unfit Powell and leaving Greenwood out is a bad call, but that could question how depleted the squad is overall. I dont like to use injuries as an excuse but we cant hide away from the fact that the squad has lost key players at different points in the season and for long periods!

If you looked at the first part of the season and perhaps up to the magic weekend, nobody would give us a chance of finishing 2nd never mind the playoffs! I confess I actually thought we would finish 6th at one point. For us to finish second, Lam has clearly inspired the players and something has clearly changed. For me its not about playing teams like Hull and Wire 'at the right time' because equally so we could have still been in terrible from! We earned 2nd place and my opinion we fought hard for it!

I agree with you again, you certainly can t buy players and hope they will gel as Salford proved when they bought Morley, Meli (and many more probably). I can only hope Hastings and Burgess have bought into Lam and the setup and not just lucrative salaries! For me personally (early to predict) I think Wigan and Warrington (BREACHING THE SALARY CAP MAJORLY) should have strong seasons next year! I think its fair to judge Lam after 2020!

w.thomas
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by w.thomas » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:33 am

Haha whoever said I had mental issues, thats just hurtful. I was obviously joking with what I said after the game, far too serious on here some folk. Id gladly buy anyone off here some KFC if that greasy rubbish is your thing. I just get fed up with people trying to find positives in woeful performances. If you care about the club as much as me you can't be happy paying to go to games and watching efforts like that. We have at least 5/6 players who shouldn't be starting but sadly they will still be starting next year. Burgess and hastings are obviously good signings but I think we need to strengthen other areas and we simply won't.

User avatar
Firestarter
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Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by Firestarter » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:40 am

w.thomas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:33 am
Haha whoever said I had mental issues, thats just hurtful. I was obviously joking with what I said after the game, far too serious on here some folk. Id gladly buy anyone off here some KFC if that greasy rubbish is your thing. I just get fed up with people trying to find positives in woeful performances. If you care about the club as much as me you can't be happy paying to go to games and watching efforts like that. We have at least 5/6 players who shouldn't be starting but sadly they will still be starting next year. Burgess and hastings are obviously good signings but I think we need to strengthen other areas and we simply won't.
i drove past kfc yesterday and told missus what you had said on here...... made us both chuckle as i knew it was a wind up and your onviously very passionate about our team under performing....... we saw a lot of the fencing ripped down at the car park at the side of kfc...... we put this down to you when no one turned up( joke)....... no offence pal just saw the funny side of it all
IF YOU STRIKE ME DOWN I WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE

thegimble
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:09 am

Re: Versus Salford

Post by thegimble » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:18 pm

shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:17 am
thegimble wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:14 pm
So bad its shocking.

Props are powder puff, Halves have no organisation thankfully we will get that side upgraded after next week.
Not sure about that, we need to be ruthless and get rid of some more players we haven’t the depth in the squad that many believe.
We have a massive squad but its weak pass a certain point. We keep players too long especially players like Logan Tomkins types.

So you do not think Hastings and Burgess are upgrades?

w.thomas
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Versus Salford

Post by w.thomas » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:17 pm

Firestarter wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:40 am
w.thomas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:33 am
Haha whoever said I had mental issues, thats just hurtful. I was obviously joking with what I said after the game, far too serious on here some folk. Id gladly buy anyone off here some KFC if that greasy rubbish is your thing. I just get fed up with people trying to find positives in woeful performances. If you care about the club as much as me you can't be happy paying to go to games and watching efforts like that. We have at least 5/6 players who shouldn't be starting but sadly they will still be starting next year. Burgess and hastings are obviously good signings but I think we need to strengthen other areas and we simply won't.
i drove past kfc yesterday and told missus what you had said on here...... made us both chuckle as i knew it was a wind up and your onviously very passionate about our team under performing....... we saw a lot of the fencing ripped down at the car park at the side of kfc...... we put this down to you when no one turned up( joke)....... no offence pal just saw the funny side of it all
No offence taken ever, it was all tongue in cheek, at least 1 person found it amusing. Sadly the fence wasn't me, vandalism happends a lot here in the ghetto ha. Just hope we are better next season because it pains me watching games like that wheb us fans have paid good money yo watch it.

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