Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:50 am

NICKYKISS wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:38 am
I keep reading and keep hearing that his attack isn’t good enough, he isn’t dangerous enough, creative enough etc.

Top try scoring hooker in Superleague-Sam Powell

Top assist making hooker in Superleague-Sam Powell (joint)

He’s turned in to a top player for my money. He’s tough as they come, his work rate is huge, he’s a leader, has a great engine and his attack has come on leaps and bounds. I do t think Lam has improved many players but Powell is twice the player under him.

I accept those stats, do i think it gives a full picture at this stage of the season - possibly not but ok lets take it as read.

I did look at the wider stats for the 5 hookers who i consider the sharp end of hookers plus Powell so

Roby
Houghton
Dwyer
Clark
Powell
Mcshane

Bear in mind i haven't looked at games/minutes played but lets just roll with it

and they basically confirm the argument on here that its what you want to see that will define how you see him. So we have the Powell fans who will quite rightly point to his defence and consistency

Tackles 3/6
Missed Tackles 2/6
Errors 2/6
Penalties 5/6 (suprising)
Marker Tackles 1/6

Now the attacking front

Assists 4/6
Tries 1/6 (Suprising)
Carries 6/6
Meters 6/6
Avg Gain 6/6
Clean breaks 4/6
Dummy half Runs 6/6

Whats probably more alarming is the difference to the top of the stats he is at the bottom for;

Carries:
Mcshane 70
Powell 39

Meters:
Mcshane 636
Powell 246

Dummy half Runs:
Mcshane 57
Powell 29

These tell you most of the work Powell does is in defence he actually is the lightest in work load of hookers in this list going forward

NB I noticed the post i replied to had Powell down as top assist joint?
In my list which i got from the superleague site i have

B. Dwyer 3
D. Clark 3
J. Roby 3
S. Powell 2
McShane 1
Houghton 1
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josie andrews
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by josie andrews » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:04 pm

Wormburner wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:40 pm
Wigan fans sure have gotten used to mediocrity in the last 10 years, Not Wigan standard in a month of Sundays
Knew it wouldn’t take you long to put your twopenneth in 😉
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage.

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Wormburner
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by Wormburner » Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:00 pm

josie andrews wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:04 pm
Wormburner wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:40 pm
Wigan fans sure have gotten used to mediocrity in the last 10 years, Not Wigan standard in a month of Sundays
Knew it wouldn’t take you long to put your twopenneth in 😉
Well I will be needing a replacement for Lockers soon enough :D
Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make suggestions about what you and someone else should do. Let's is NOT a promise

morley pie eater
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by morley pie eater » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:01 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:50 am
NICKYKISS wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:38 am
I keep reading and keep hearing that his attack isn’t good enough, he isn’t dangerous enough, creative enough etc.

Top try scoring hooker in Superleague-Sam Powell

Top assist making hooker in Superleague-Sam Powell (joint)

He’s turned in to a top player for my money. He’s tough as they come, his work rate is huge, he’s a leader, has a great engine and his attack has come on leaps and bounds. I do t think Lam has improved many players but Powell is twice the player under him.

I accept those stats, do i think it gives a full picture at this stage of the season - possibly not but ok lets take it as read.

I did look at the wider stats for the 5 hookers who i consider the sharp end of hookers plus Powell so

Roby
Houghton
Dwyer
Clark
Powell
Mcshane

Bear in mind i haven't looked at games/minutes played but lets just roll with it

and they basically confirm the argument on here that its what you want to see that will define how you see him. So we have the Powell fans who will quite rightly point to his defence and consistency

Tackles 3/6
Missed Tackles 2/6
Errors 2/6
Penalties 5/6 (suprising)
Marker Tackles 1/6

Now the attacking front

Assists 4/6
Tries 1/6 (Suprising)
Carries 6/6
Meters 6/6
Avg Gain 6/6
Clean breaks 4/6
Dummy half Runs 6/6

Whats probably more alarming is the difference to the top of the stats he is at the bottom for;

Carries:
Mcshane 70
Powell 39

Meters:
Mcshane 636
Powell 246

Dummy half Runs:
Mcshane 57
Powell 29

These tell you most of the work Powell does is in defence he actually is the lightest in work load of hookers in this list going forward

NB I noticed the post i replied to had Powell down as top assist joint?
In my list which i got from the superleague site i have

B. Dwyer 3
D. Clark 3
J. Roby 3
S. Powell 2
McShane 1
Houghton 1
Interesting stats, and I appreciate your pov, Wfe.

Just one question: would you swap Sam for McShane?

Exiled Wiganer
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by Exiled Wiganer » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:32 pm

He will do for me. He is one less thing to worry about, and is good for the culture of the squad. He is a part of the spine, and every spine needs a completely reliable grafter. We can put creative players around him and the balance works nicely.

Nezza Faz
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by Nezza Faz » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:27 pm

Exiled Wiganer wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:32 pm
He will do for me. He is one less thing to worry about, and is good for the culture of the squad. He is a part of the spine, and every spine needs a completely reliable grafter. We can put creative players around him and the balance works nicely.
And the Team he plays for is placed higher than the rest of those named hookers, and don't forget your rake is the fulcrum of your spine.

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EagleEyePie
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by EagleEyePie » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:57 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:50 am
I accept those stats, do i think it gives a full picture at this stage of the season - possibly not but ok lets take it as read.

I did look at the wider stats for the 5 hookers who i consider the sharp end of hookers plus Powell so

Roby
Houghton
Dwyer
Clark
Powell
Mcshane

Bear in mind i haven't looked at games/minutes played but lets just roll with it

and they basically confirm the argument on here that its what you want to see that will define how you see him. So we have the Powell fans who will quite rightly point to his defence and consistency

Tackles 3/6
Missed Tackles 2/6
Errors 2/6
Penalties 5/6 (suprising)
Marker Tackles 1/6

Now the attacking front

Assists 4/6
Tries 1/6 (Suprising)
Carries 6/6
Meters 6/6
Avg Gain 6/6
Clean breaks 4/6
Dummy half Runs 6/6

Whats probably more alarming is the difference to the top of the stats he is at the bottom for;

Carries:
Mcshane 70
Powell 39

Meters:
Mcshane 636
Powell 246

Dummy half Runs:
Mcshane 57
Powell 29

These tell you most of the work Powell does is in defence he actually is the lightest in work load of hookers in this list going forward

NB I noticed the post i replied to had Powell down as top assist joint?
In my list which i got from the superleague site i have

B. Dwyer 3
D. Clark 3
J. Roby 3
S. Powell 2
McShane 1
Houghton 1
I think when it comes to runs from dummy half, metres per game and carries it's as simple as Powell playing a different type of game. Not every hooker has to run from dummy half often, but every hooker has to be willing to do so. Cameron Smith doesn't run from dummy half as much as a Roby or Clark, so clearly on their own those aren't the most important stats. Mark Riddell was a good hooker for us and he didn't run the ball from dummy half very often - but crucially when he did run he was effective and that made all the difference.

When Powell doesn't run from dummy half generally we're less effective in attack. If he ran as much as someone like Clark we'd also probably be less effective in attack. Last season Powell changed his game and started running the ball more when the time was right and his game and the teams performance improved.

Since the return from lockdown his defence has been absolutely outstanding. I think he's gone back to early 2019 Powell and hasn't been as influential in attack though. I hope we see a bit more from him with ball in hand in the next few weeks.

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wall_of_voodoo
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by wall_of_voodoo » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:30 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:48 pm
I agree with other people Powell is always going to split fans because he is a "non special" player. That doesnt mean he is bad by any stretch but he will never turn a match on its head .

Im getting a little fed up of this "coaches like him" argument too, he's dependable, he trains well, no problems off the pitch, comes across incredibly level headed and gives you 100% effort every match OF COURSE THEY LIKE HIM! it does not make him a "great" player

put it this way why has Wane not included him in the England set up? coaches rate him so highly? just not as high as a nearly 35 year old with 500 matches in his legs, Wane coached him for years so that rate highly soon went once give the choice of other hookers. He just isnt at the sharp end of hookers in the league .

Problem is people who are his fans want you to believe he is better than he is
his critics want you to believe hes worse than he is

the true answer is he is somewhere in the middle
A very good assessment of Powell. I still think we need someone to interchange with him to speed the rucks up at certain points of the games and at the moment we have no one to offer that variety

TL interchanging with SP is the way to go. Only Adrian Lam thinks TL is still good enough to play 80 minutes at half anymore
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Firestarter
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by Firestarter » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:17 am

wall_of_voodoo wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:30 pm
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:48 pm
I agree with other people Powell is always going to split fans because he is a "non special" player. That doesnt mean he is bad by any stretch but he will never turn a match on its head .

Im getting a little fed up of this "coaches like him" argument too, he's dependable, he trains well, no problems off the pitch, comes across incredibly level headed and gives you 100% effort every match OF COURSE THEY LIKE HIM! it does not make him a "great" player

put it this way why has Wane not included him in the England set up? coaches rate him so highly? just not as high as a nearly 35 year old with 500 matches in his legs, Wane coached him for years so that rate highly soon went once give the choice of other hookers. He just isnt at the sharp end of hookers in the league .

Problem is people who are his fans want you to believe he is better than he is
his critics want you to believe hes worse than he is

the true answer is he is somewhere in the middle
A very good assessment of Powell. I still think we need someone to interchange with him to speed the rucks up at certain points of the games and at the moment we have no one to offer that variety

TL interchanging with SP is the way to go. Only Adrian Lam thinks TL is still good enough to play 80 minutes at half anymore
i think once young borough gets a chance he will be, at least, bench hooker..... from what ive seen already hes class
IF YOU STRIKE ME DOWN I WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE

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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Powell wants to finish career at Wigan

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:03 pm

morley pie eater wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:01 pm

Just one question: would you swap Sam for McShane?
Surprisingly maybe if you offered me a like for like swap - no I probably wouldn’t

I like mcshane and I think he is a better hooker than Powell but I don’t think he would be as effective at Wigan - cas play a more open game plan to us which suits mcshane

I would love to see a zippy hooker interchanged with Powell - I’m a big fan of the two hooker setup - if you have momentum your zippy hooker can make hay if you are controlling or trying to stop a teams momentum Sam would be great
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure

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