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If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.

bertina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.

his kicking game destroyed us in the semi v salford as well

He has been playing for decades, and only been effective as a strong hitting hooker, so to expect him to develop a kicking game is insane.

Exiled Wiganer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:53 pm He has been playing for decades, and only been effective as a strong hitting hooker, so to expect him to develop a kicking game is insane.

Thats the problem.....we all know that...... i think michael maguire was the only wigan coach that realised this....... thats why we signed deacon, and it worked

bertina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.

Young pack not big enough to make ground and you expect halves to play behind them?

Wandering Warrior wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:12 pm

bertina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.

Young pack not big enough to make ground and you expect halves to play behind them?

Not a reason for Tommy kicking the ball about 25 yards allowing Leeds to start nearly all their sets just short of the half way line.

We could have started big........ bullough powell clarke faz greenwood and havard would have been my starting 6 in these conditions......... still, i wouldnt ever have tommy kicking long....... his back leg never even leaves the ground ,so how will he ever get power

Exiled Wiganer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:53 pm He has been playing for decades, and only been effective as a strong hitting hooker, so to expect him to develop a kicking game is insane.

Don't agree with that necessarily. He's played just as well in the halves as he has at hooker. He was mostly preferred in the halves for us. The same when he was at NZ Warriors. In his second stint with us he was tried at hooker and was poor and ended up moving back to the halves because he played better there.

For me the issue with Leuluai has always been that he's a very good rugby player, but neither a natural half nor a natural hooker. He has limitations in both of those positions, but aspects of his game that generally made him so good that you'd want him in your team somewhere.

Leuluai used to be able to put in some smart kicks but his range has always been dreadful. He used to have a very good short kicking game but for some reason that seems to have completely deserted him now. Long kicking has always been poor because he just can't kick it far enough. It's one of the reasons why I'd say he's not a natural half.

I agree though that it's stupid to expect any more from him now though. He's been playing for over a decade. Everyone is aware of his limitations and the fact that he seems to do so much kicking for us is just dumb.

He doesn't seem capable of playing hooker anymore, which means half is the only position for him really. The problem is his kicking game is awful but his edge defence is still probably unmatched. Smith's kicking game is exceptional but his defence is pretty poor. No matter who we play there's a big strength and a big weakness.

Our biggest issue is the same as its been for a few years now - we can't make metres. We had to play one-out rugby today because of the conditions and we stood no chance in that style. We'd have been better off repeatedly kicking early and trying to get aorund them as we did against Catalans where we knew we'd be outmuscled, but the coaches probalby thought it was too risky.

IMO our safety first tactics were a guaranteed loss, so kcking early and trying to spread it would have been preferable.

bertina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.

Our starting back row are all 30 years plus.