Time for a reality check

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
User avatar
EagleEyePie
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by EagleEyePie » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:37 am

Charriots Offiah wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:02 am
bertina wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm
If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.
Our starting back row are all 30 years plus.
I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

Saints pack includes Taia (35), Peyroux (31), LMS (34), Walmsley (30), Amor (32), Paulo (32), Graham (35).

Wire have Hill (32), Cooper (32), Clark (31) all above 30.

The likes of Farrell and Isa should still be in their prime.

The problem for us is we've got Clubb (33), O'Loughlin (37) and Flower (32) who are our established players, top earners, offering absolutely nothing like the sort of quality that the 30+ players at Saints and Wire are.

Taia, LMS, Walmsley, Amor, Graham, Hill and Cooper are all 90-to-100 metres+ per game players. They are superb value for their experience. They are the leaders of the team and can carry the responsibility and the good young players at those clubs don't have to flog themselves game after game and carry them.

We've also got Burgess (28) and Clark (27). Two new signings who should be in their peak years that have offered absolutely nothing.

Farrell and Isa should have plenty of years left at the top of their game but we've got good youngsters waiting in the wings to suggest we've got some cover there. Our problem is mainly down the middle and the absolutely shocking return we're getting for our experienced players compared to other teams.

Charriots Offiah
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by Charriots Offiah » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:43 am

EagleEyePie wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:37 am
Charriots Offiah wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:02 am
bertina wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm
If today taught us anything, it’s that Lockers and especially Tommy are finished.
Tommy’s kicking game today crucified us.
Why the hell don’t we stick with Harry Smith.
We have an eager young pack, but unfortunately they are not big enough to make any ground.
We never got our arses out of our own half for 90% of the game.
I think I can kick a medicine ball further than Tommy can kick a rugby ball.
Our starting back row are all 30 years plus.
I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

Saints pack includes Taia (35), Peyroux (31), LMS (34), Walmsley (30), Amor (32), Paulo (32), Graham (35).

Wire have Hill (32), Cooper (32), Clark (31) all above 30.

The likes of Farrell and Isa should still be in their prime.

The problem for us is we've got Clubb (33), O'Loughlin (37) and Flower (32) who are our established players, top earners, offering absolutely nothing like the sort of quality that the 30+ players at Saints and Wire are.

Taia, LMS, Walmsley, Amor, Graham, Hill and Cooper are all 90-to-100 metres+ per game players. They are superb value for their experience. They are the leaders of the team and can carry the responsibility and the good young players at those clubs don't have to flog themselves game after game and carry them.

We've also got Burgess (28) and Clark (27). Two new signings who should be in their peak years that have offered absolutely nothing.

Farrell and Isa should have plenty of years left at the top of their game but we've got good youngsters waiting in the wings to suggest we've got some cover there. Our problem is mainly down the middle and the absolutely shocking return we're getting for our experienced players compared to other teams.
I am not worried about it, I was simply pointing out that we had enough experience in the pack. As we all know our youth development is great and these lads have plenty of time to develop, we just need to get our recruitment right.

Caboosegg
Posts: 1902
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by Caboosegg » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:59 am

Where are people getting who our top earners are.

I imagine lockers, flower and clubb are nowhere near it.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell

User avatar
EagleEyePie
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by EagleEyePie » Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:07 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:59 am
Where are people getting who our top earners are.

I imagine lockers, flower and clubb are nowhere near it.
Surely they'd have to be among them. They've been at the club for years and considered starting players when fit. Lockers comes straight back into the side when fit. Clubb also came straight back into the side at the start of this year. Flower did too but has lost his place in Lam's first choice 17. I'd be surprised if either of those 3 are number 1, but you'd reasonably expect them to be in our top 13, given they seem to be seen as established first team players based on squad selection.

Caboosegg
Posts: 1902
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by Caboosegg » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:21 pm

EagleEyePie wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:07 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:59 am
Where are people getting who our top earners are.

I imagine lockers, flower and clubb are nowhere near it.
Surely they'd have to be among them. They've been at the club for years and considered starting players when fit. Lockers comes straight back into the side when fit. Clubb also came straight back into the side at the start of this year. Flower did too but has lost his place in Lam's first choice 17. I'd be surprised if either of those 3 are number 1, but you'd reasonably expect them to be in our top 13, given they seem to be seen as established first team players based on squad selection.

Lockers took that long to sign his one year extension last time... have you thought that could be to the club trying to reduce his wage.

Yes they are all starters they must all also be aware that they are not the players they where.

With how large our squad i just think people are making figures up to justify their complaints.

I expect the below all earn more than them, based of being either in their prime or signed from the NRL but i know much about player wages as the next person not in the know.

French
Hastings
G Burgess
J Burgess
Gildart
Hardaker
Greenwood
Farrell.

I would of added manfredi but i can imagine signing while injured meant he had to take less money.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell

User avatar
wall_of_voodoo
Posts: 1054
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by wall_of_voodoo » Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:58 pm

EagleEyePie wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:31 pm
Exiled Wiganer wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:53 pm
He has been playing for decades, and only been effective as a strong hitting hooker, so to expect him to develop a kicking game is insane.
Don't agree with that necessarily. He's played just as well in the halves as he has at hooker. He was mostly preferred in the halves for us. The same when he was at NZ Warriors. In his second stint with us he was tried at hooker and was poor and ended up moving back to the halves because he played better there.
You don't agree? But he is right!

Leulaui was a scrum half at London Broncos and we played him there with varying degrees of success after signing him from them. It was obvious he was not a great playmaker or tactical player from the out but his strengths outweighed his weaknesses - great defense, intensity, pace and sheer work around the rucks.

His form started dropping and the NZ coach moved him to hooker and that saw a new lease of life for Tommy. It suited his style of play as he slowly lost his pace. Wigan followed suit. To say he was poor at hooker is rubbish as he was not. Some of his best performances for Wigan came coming off the bench as interchange hooker. It was that form that saw NZ Warriors re-sign him.
I'm a better fan than you
Because I don't "Boo"!!!

Yes I bloody know transfer fees do not count on the salary cap for those illiterates that need it explaining to them because they assume everyone is as thick as they are :roll:

User avatar
EagleEyePie
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by EagleEyePie » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:40 pm

wall_of_voodoo wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:58 pm
You don't agree? But he is right!

Leulaui was a scrum half at London Broncos and we played him there with varying degrees of success after signing him from them. It was obvious he was not a great playmaker or tactical player from the out but his strengths outweighed his weaknesses - great defense, intensity, pace and sheer work around the rucks.

His form started dropping and the NZ coach moved him to hooker and that saw a new lease of life for Tommy. It suited his style of play as he slowly lost his pace. Wigan followed suit. To say he was poor at hooker is rubbish as he was not. Some of his best performances for Wigan came coming off the bench as interchange hooker. It was that form that saw NZ Warriors re-sign him.
I said he was poor at hooker in his second stint with us, not that he's always been poor at hooker. Bit of a big difference there.

You say his form at hooker for us is what convinced NZ Warriors to re-sign him. He'd played exclusively at halfback for us the season before (2012), and in 19 out of 34 games in 2011 were at halfback too. And then of course when he was at NZ Warriors in 2013 he played every single one of his games in the halves (not what you'd expect if they signed him to play hooker).

He only had one season (2015) where he was considered as a hooker. He was moved back into the halves the following season.

When he returned to us generally his performances weren't great. Playing at half he wasn't impressive. When he was played at hooker he wasn't impressive. It was only when he was played in the halves halfway through last season that he actually started playing well. Up until that point his return was uninspiring. That's what I meant when I said he was poor at hooker and played better in the halves.

It might be worth sticking him at hooker and now and seeing whether we get more from him this time, but he was never the sort of hooker people seem to want us to have. He rarely ran from dummy half, so chances are we'd get similar to what Powell gives us, but would have a weaker edge defence.

jao711
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by jao711 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:19 am

Well the’re giving Sam P and Willie a rest.

First Try Tickle
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:15 am

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by First Try Tickle » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:52 pm

jao711 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:19 am
Well the’re giving Sam P and Willie a rest.
I wish Lam would.

As for moving Tommy to 9, then that gives Lam an impossible dilemma where he has to choose one of his certain starters to start on the bench.

widdenoldboy
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:25 pm

Re: Time for a reality check

Post by widdenoldboy » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:45 pm


I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

Saints pack includes Taia (35), Peyroux (31), LMS (34), Walmsley (30), Amor (32), Paulo (32), Graham (35).

Wire have Hill (32), Cooper (32), Clark (31) all above 30.

The likes of Farrell and Isa should still be in their prime.

The problem for us is we've got Clubb (33), O'Loughlin (37) and Flower (32) who are our established players, top earners, offering absolutely nothing like the sort of quality that the 30+ players at Saints and Wire are.

Taia, LMS, Walmsley, Amor, Graham, Hill and Cooper are all 90-to-100 metres+ per game players. They are superb value for their experience. They are the leaders of the team and can carry the responsibility and the good young players at those clubs don't have to flog themselves game after game and carry them.

We've also got Burgess (28) and Clark (27). Two new signings who should be in their peak years that have offered absolutely nothing.

Farrell and Isa should have plenty of years left at the top of their game but we've got good youngsters waiting in the wings to suggest we've got some cover there. Our problem is mainly down the middle and the absolutely shocking return we're getting for our experienced players compared to other teams.
Good post, we seem to be at the halfway house of Wane's small, quick forwards to a more yards after contact front row. Its baffling or bad luck that both Burgess and Clark have been ineffective - Clubb and Lockers seem done, I actually think that we missed Flower v Leeds as his clever running angles would have helped get us going forward. Maybe Byrne would have been worth a go with his size.

Post Reply