Grand Final 21-man squad

[Wigan_forever1985]

We lost because we weren't good enough to win and were undisciplined. Which doesn't mean that Saints should have won - they weren't as good as they usually are. Two knackered sides with not a great deal of creativity and that is down to the coaches. Lam doesn't have much of a game plan - we were still running the same moves in the 75th minute as we were in the 5th minute. Everyone could see that when we went wide, we stretched Saints and had chances to score but we concentrated on battering down the middle which didn't work all night. Saints have sacrificed flair for some Leeds-type nastiness (Bentley is a prime example) but they will say that it worked this season so expect more of the same.
The touch judge gave the crucial penalty and was insistent that it was a high tackle. Can't say I agreed but it does happen.
What was depressing was to watch us getting near the line and having no plan to get over and score. The absence of Harry Smith to give us something different was obvious near the end. Smithies was lucky not to be sin-binned for that shoulder charge and can expect another ban.
The loss will be worth it if we learn, adapt and play differently but I'm not holding my breath.

Whilst I agree with some of your post, it’s about striking a balance. If you start going wide all of the time, the defensive team don’t need to be compact in the middle and can spread out more. That means there isn’t the space out wide anymore.

It’s a combination of bartering down the middle to make the defence compact. Then to get it out wide and have decoy runners to keep them compact as you get it outwide and hopefully in space.

You're right about going wide all the time but battering down the middle is a holding operation until you can switch the play wide and then, because of our slow play, we've probably used up most of our tackles, a ground kicking game is crucial. George Williams kicking to our left flank was the most potent play we had in Wane's last years but we seem to hardly ever use it now unless Harry Smith is on the field. He's not the messiah but he does offer a something different which liberates Burgess, Gildart and Farrell.

Lets get some perspective here

Wigan finished top of the league
scored the 2nd most points of any team in the league during the season
Adrian Lam won coach of the year
Literally a posts width from winning the Grand Final (Zaks cross bar, Makinsons Drop)
Kept the top points scoring team try less until the final second of the game


you know what i think Lam probably does know what he's doing

[Nezza Faz]

It was a fantastic performance from both sides and a fitting Grand Final to end the careers of two legends like Lockers and Graham.

At the time it was absolutely gutting to lose and to lose in that manner, but whatever moment ended up winning the game was going to be a big one.

I thought the game itself went pretty much as expected. We don't really have a squad capable of dominating field position in the way the Saints did. It's been a potential weakness for many years but we've also done remarkably well at overcoming that. In lots of games this year we've soaked up so much pressure and been able to hit back with quick tries from deep. It was always going to be a much bigger ask against Saints in a Grand Final because their defence is so strong out wide and the game was always likely to be tighter. Unfortunately as soon as Saints drew level they were always the more likely to win. Their domination of field position gave them a massive advantage at that stage.

I don't think there's any other team that could deal with the pressure Saints put us under. Not even Saints themselves had we been capable of doing that to them. It's a real strength of this side that the players can defend set after set after set and still have something left in the tank.

I've seen criticism of Hardaker for going for the 2 from the penalty. At the time I did think it was the wrong option. His previous touchline kick didn't have the legs. He must have been exhausted from all the effort put in up to that point. It didn't seem remotely possible that he would get the ball dead (which was the most important thing) never mind kick the goal. It was a brave call though and had we gone for touch and missed the drop goal (drop goals aren't exactly high percentage plays) he'd have got stick for not going for goal.

Ultimately a bigger mistake than that was Smithies conceding the penalty in the first half. In such a close game 2 points are huge. I honestly can't understand why any player puts in a shoulder charge. It's been banned for years, it's not taught, it should never even cross a players mind. A promising player though he is, he needs to get that out of his game quickly. It's getting to the point where his discipline is a big negative. I actually thought Shorrocks was hard done to when he lost his place as he's far more reliable.

Immediately after the game I was frustrated but looking back on the season as a whole I think we've done well this year. Saints were so far ahead of us last season and they've reached the same level this year since the restart. We've somehow managed to bridge that gap despite not really having the benefit of strengthening the squad in the way we'd have liked.

We've had money tied up in Burgess as our marquee player yet he was able to contribute pretty much nothing (I hope there's something that can be done). Clark was also supposed to help bolster our pack but didn't deliver. Havard was a revelation and our best prop this year only to be injured for the end of the season. He was good enough to be guaranteed a place in the 17. Both our first choice wingers were out injured. We then had Flower, whose performances in his last few games were very impressive, get injured in the semi final. There's adversity there that we've had to overcome. There are enough excuses as to why we might not have reached the same level as Saints. In the end though we reached that level. We finished top and lost the final by seconds and inches. All in all though I think it's been a very promising season.

Brilliant thought out post, EEPie. Pretty much summed up both the evening and the season.

[CheshireWarrior]

Slightly off topic, does anyone know what the situation with Mitch Clark is? Is he injured or just not selected lately?

[Charriots Offiah]

We lost because we weren't good enough to win and were undisciplined. Which doesn't mean that Saints should have won - they weren't as good as they usually are. Two knackered sides with not a great deal of creativity and that is down to the coaches. Lam doesn't have much of a game plan - we were still running the same moves in the 75th minute as we were in the 5th minute. Everyone could see that when we went wide, we stretched Saints and had chances to score but we concentrated on battering down the middle which didn't work all night. Saints have sacrificed flair for some Leeds-type nastiness (Bentley is a prime example) but they will say that it worked this season so expect more of the same.
The touch judge gave the crucial penalty and was insistent that it was a high tackle. Can't say I agreed but it does happen.
What was depressing was to watch us getting near the line and having no plan to get over and score. The absence of Harry Smith to give us something different was obvious near the end. Smithies was lucky not to be sin-binned for that shoulder charge and can expect another ban.
The loss will be worth it if we learn, adapt and play differently but I'm not holding my breath.

What about the tackle on Gildart? Smithies penalty, which was stupid, should not have mattered we had ample opportunity to win. We could go on all day about discipline, Zak's obstruction giving Saints field position and momentum, Peyroux not getting pinged for exactly the same offence, Faz's high tackle, forward passes, poor passes, that is rugby league.

It is a simple game, the forwards gain you field position and the backs put the attacking plays on. You can't swing the ball about without doing the grunt and expect to score at will. Unfortunately, we probably missed a couple of fully fit props on our bench to gain superiority.

We need to build on last night. We must get Burgess fit, or replace him. Havard, Byrne, Shorrocks, Smith and Smithies will improve from the experience they have had this year. Singleton will benefit from a pre-season with us. Bateman, and Field, will give us the x-factor. There is plenty to look forward to in 2021.

[Exiled Wiganer]

If we had even one of Havard, G Burgess (NRL version), Marshall or Manfredi we would have won. Next year, assuming we resolve Burgess one way or another and the wingers legs are sorted out, we will be far stronger with Field and Bateman. Again, either of those plays (and Bateman in place of Lockers) and I back us to win. Meanwhile, Partington, Smithies, Havard and Smith will all be a year older. They are about as good a crop of young players to emerge all at once as we have seen in over a decade.

As for the game, we neither deserved to lose - certainly not like that - or win, given the number of chances we blew. A couple of things we did show, though, were that we are more creative and exciting than Woolf’s Saints, and that we have a group of players who are fit and disciplined to pretty much the end. I have been pleasantly surprised and very proud of the transformation Lam has wrought with this team over the last couple of months. He has proven me wrong, despite having lost a lot of big games over the last 2 years. His methods will work, and our greater subtlety and range of options will make us both more effective and more entertaining than Woolf’s more basic team. Holbrook he ain’t.

[Charriots Offiah]

I believe that Budgie played with a broken jaw and Gilly with a broken thumb.

[fozzieskem]

If we had even one of Havard, G Burgess (NRL version), Marshall or Manfredi we would have won. Next year, assuming we resolve Burgess one way or another and the wingers legs are sorted out, we will be far stronger with Field and Bateman. Again, either of those plays (and Bateman in place of Lockers) and I back us to win. Meanwhile, Partington, Smithies, Havard and Smith will all be a year older. They are about as good a crop of young players to emerge all at once as we have seen in over a decade.

As for the game, we neither deserved to lose - certainly not like that - or win, given the number of chances we blew. A couple of things we did show, though, were that we are more creative and exciting than Woolf’s Saints, and that we have a group of players who are fit and disciplined to pretty much the end. I have been pleasantly surprised and very proud of the transformation Lam has wrought with this team over the last couple of months. He has proven me wrong, despite having lost a lot of big games over the last 2 years. His methods will work, and our greater subtlety and range of options will make us both more effective and more entertaining than Woolf’s more basic team. Holbrook he ain’t.

Excellent post.

Little doubt to me at least saints have gone backwards under Woolfe,under Holbrook they where way ahead of every other team but that I put down purely to Holbrooks excellence as a man manager.

I’ve not been convinced at all by Lam I’ve said it often enough here but as always it’s nice to start to be proven wrong by him,so long as Wigan continue on this path I see no reason why Wigan should t be right up there next season

[morley pie eater]

Whilst I agree with some of your post, it’s about striking a balance. If you start going wide all of the time, the defensive team don’t need to be compact in the middle and can spread out more. That means there isn’t the space out wide anymore.

It’s a combination of bartering down the middle to make the defence compact. Then to get it out wide and have decoy runners to keep them compact as you get it outwide and hopefully in space.

You're right about going wide all the time but battering down the middle is a holding operation until you can switch the play wide and then, because of our slow play, we've probably used up most of our tackles, a ground kicking game is crucial. George Williams kicking to our left flank was the most potent play we had in Wane's last years but we seem to hardly ever use it now unless Harry Smith is on the field. He's not the messiah but he does offer a something different which liberates Burgess, Gildart and Farrell.

Lets get some perspective here

Wigan finished top of the league
scored the 2nd most points of any team in the league during the season
Adrian Lam won coach of the year
Literally a posts width from winning the Grand Final (Zaks cross bar, Makinsons Drop)
Kept the top points scoring team try less until the final second of the game


you know what i think Lam probably does know what he's doing

Me too!

Disappointed/gutted as I am, there are far more positives than negatives to take from our performance.

[Big stick]

Send lam packing, we only improved when peet came back. Him and winder are the driving force behind the team.

[CheshireWarrior]

Send lam packing, we only improved when peet came back. Him and winder are the driving force behind the team.

And bring who in?