Grand Final 21-man squad

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Jonathon Kerr (JK)
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by Jonathon Kerr (JK) »

So other than being bitter that we lost most (if not all) the 50/50 calls and ultimately the match; I have to say well done to both sets of players. [emoji122][emoji122] What a spectacle they served up, hopefully we use this and drive on to bigger and better things next year.
Don’t want to sound greedy, but given what we know of the squad, I have my eyes on the treble next year [emoji1696][emoji523][emoji836]️[emoji3]

Time to put this horrendous year to bed and look forward to when we can all get back there to cheer the boys on.
nathan_rugby
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by nathan_rugby »

Cracking game, excellent defence, very tough one to take with the way it ended. Probably the most gutted I’ve been after a Grand Final.

We can have a very successful year next season, let’s hope we sort our kicking game out because it’s diabolical. Been that way since Matty Smith left.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
morley pie eater
Posts: 3220
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by morley pie eater »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:30 pm A great game of rugby league, all 34 players gave it everything. The biggest difference between the two sides was the bounce of the ball or should I say the woodwork. Saints never looked like crossing the whitewash, we created several chances but our execution wasn’t good enough. Had we had 50% of the ball then I am convinced we would have won comfortably.

On to 2021, congratulations to Saints (said through gritted teeth), we will be there or thereabouts next season.
100% agree
. . . . . . ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Southern Softy
Posts: 1458
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by Southern Softy »

We lost because we weren't good enough to win and were undisciplined. Which doesn't mean that Saints should have won - they weren't as good as they usually are. Two knackered sides with not a great deal of creativity and that is down to the coaches. Lam doesn't have much of a game plan - we were still running the same moves in the 75th minute as we were in the 5th minute. Everyone could see that when we went wide, we stretched Saints and had chances to score but we concentrated on battering down the middle which didn't work all night. Saints have sacrificed flair for some Leeds-type nastiness (Bentley is a prime example) but they will say that it worked this season so expect more of the same.
The touch judge gave the crucial penalty and was insistent that it was a high tackle. Can't say I agreed but it does happen.
What was depressing was to watch us getting near the line and having no plan to get over and score. The absence of Harry Smith to give us something different was obvious near the end. Smithies was lucky not to be sin-binned for that shoulder charge and can expect another ban.
The loss will be worth it if we learn, adapt and play differently but I'm not holding my breath.
nathan_rugby
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by nathan_rugby »

Southern Softy wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:32 am We lost because we weren't good enough to win and were undisciplined. Which doesn't mean that Saints should have won - they weren't as good as they usually are. Two knackered sides with not a great deal of creativity and that is down to the coaches. Lam doesn't have much of a game plan - we were still running the same moves in the 75th minute as we were in the 5th minute. Everyone could see that when we went wide, we stretched Saints and had chances to score but we concentrated on battering down the middle which didn't work all night. Saints have sacrificed flair for some Leeds-type nastiness (Bentley is a prime example) but they will say that it worked this season so expect more of the same.
The touch judge gave the crucial penalty and was insistent that it was a high tackle. Can't say I agreed but it does happen.
What was depressing was to watch us getting near the line and having no plan to get over and score. The absence of Harry Smith to give us something different was obvious near the end. Smithies was lucky not to be sin-binned for that shoulder charge and can expect another ban.
The loss will be worth it if we learn, adapt and play differently but I'm not holding my breath.
Whilst I agree with some of your post, it’s about striking a balance. If you start going wide all of the time, the defensive team don’t need to be compact in the middle and can spread out more. That means there isn’t the space out wide anymore.

It’s a combination of bartering down the middle to make the defence compact. Then to get it out wide and have decoy runners to keep them compact as you get it outwide and hopefully in space.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
Barney841
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:24 am

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by Barney841 »

Southern Softy wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:32 am We lost because we weren't good enough to win and were undisciplined. Which doesn't mean that Saints should have won - they weren't as good as they usually are. Two knackered sides with not a great deal of creativity and that is down to the coaches. Lam doesn't have much of a game plan - we were still running the same moves in the 75th minute as we were in the 5th minute. Everyone could see that when we went wide, we stretched Saints and had chances to score but we concentrated on battering down the middle which didn't work all night. Saints have sacrificed flair for some Leeds-type nastiness (Bentley is a prime example) but they will say that it worked this season so expect more of the same.
The touch judge gave the crucial penalty and was insistent that it was a high tackle. Can't say I agreed but it does happen.
What was depressing was to watch us getting near the line and having no plan to get over and score. The absence of Harry Smith to give us something different was obvious near the end. Smithies was lucky not to be sin-binned for that shoulder charge and can expect another ban.
The loss will be worth it if we learn, adapt and play differently but I'm not holding my breath.
I think Lams tactics worked. You seem to forget saints last night played brilliant in defence, their line speed was unbelievable. We still broke their defence more than they broke ares. We just failed on execution a few times, and as we can see that can cost you games
DaveO
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by DaveO »

No straw damn us wrote:Danny McGuire who played alongside Hardaker expected him to kick it. But the keyboard assassins on here know differently. :oops:
As was pointed out on RLFans when someone posted this (you?) he wasn’t even Leeds regular goal kicker when they played together so God knows where that comment from him came from.

For us Hardaker has hardly been consistent this season and he’s not close to the top of the goal kicking table. That was a Hail Mary call rather than the cool one of going for position and a drop attempt. Pat Richards maybe. Hardaker no.

In a way it sums this team up. Not quite professional enough to win the big games. There has been for a while plenty of comments about lack of direction and/or leadership. Someone needs to get a grip next season and impose their authority as captain and whoever it is needs to be a cool head and astute tactician. Not just picked for being the longest serving player or whatever or another dumb reason. Having a part time captain this season has not helped.
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EagleEyePie
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by EagleEyePie »

It was a fantastic performance from both sides and a fitting Grand Final to end the careers of two legends like Lockers and Graham.

At the time it was absolutely gutting to lose and to lose in that manner, but whatever moment ended up winning the game was going to be a big one.

I thought the game itself went pretty much as expected. We don't really have a squad capable of dominating field position in the way the Saints did. It's been a potential weakness for many years but we've also done remarkably well at overcoming that. In lots of games this year we've soaked up so much pressure and been able to hit back with quick tries from deep. It was always going to be a much bigger ask against Saints in a Grand Final because their defence is so strong out wide and the game was always likely to be tighter. Unfortunately as soon as Saints drew level they were always the more likely to win. Their domination of field position gave them a massive advantage at that stage.

I don't think there's any other team that could deal with the pressure Saints put us under. Not even Saints themselves had we been capable of doing that to them. It's a real strength of this side that the players can defend set after set after set and still have something left in the tank.

I've seen criticism of Hardaker for going for the 2 from the penalty. At the time I did think it was the wrong option. His previous touchline kick didn't have the legs. He must have been exhausted from all the effort put in up to that point. It didn't seem remotely possible that he would get the ball dead (which was the most important thing) never mind kick the goal. It was a brave call though and had we gone for touch and missed the drop goal (drop goals aren't exactly high percentage plays) he'd have got stick for not going for goal.

Ultimately a bigger mistake than that was Smithies conceding the penalty in the first half. In such a close game 2 points are huge. I honestly can't understand why any player puts in a shoulder charge. It's been banned for years, it's not taught, it should never even cross a players mind. A promising player though he is, he needs to get that out of his game quickly. It's getting to the point where his discipline is a big negative. I actually thought Shorrocks was hard done to when he lost his place as he's far more reliable.

Immediately after the game I was frustrated but looking back on the season as a whole I think we've done well this year. Saints were so far ahead of us last season and they've reached the same level this year since the restart. We've somehow managed to bridge that gap despite not really having the benefit of strengthening the squad in the way we'd have liked.

We've had money tied up in Burgess as our marquee player yet he was able to contribute pretty much nothing (I hope there's something that can be done). Clark was also supposed to help bolster our pack but didn't deliver. Havard was a revelation and our best prop this year only to be injured for the end of the season. He was good enough to be guaranteed a place in the 17. Both our first choice wingers were out injured. We then had Flower, whose performances in his last few games were very impressive, get injured in the semi final. There's adversity there that we've had to overcome. There are enough excuses as to why we might not have reached the same level as Saints. In the end though we reached that level. We finished top and lost the final by seconds and inches. All in all though I think it's been a very promising season.
pearsy
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:21 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by pearsy »

Botica Farrell Richards would have nailed that penalty Still not convinced about Hardaker /Bibby on the wing few cockups on that side
Southern Softy
Posts: 1458
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Grand Final 21-man squad

Post by Southern Softy »

nathan_rugby wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:00 am
Southern Softy wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:32 am We lost because we weren't good enough to win and were undisciplined. Which doesn't mean that Saints should have won - they weren't as good as they usually are. Two knackered sides with not a great deal of creativity and that is down to the coaches. Lam doesn't have much of a game plan - we were still running the same moves in the 75th minute as we were in the 5th minute. Everyone could see that when we went wide, we stretched Saints and had chances to score but we concentrated on battering down the middle which didn't work all night. Saints have sacrificed flair for some Leeds-type nastiness (Bentley is a prime example) but they will say that it worked this season so expect more of the same.
The touch judge gave the crucial penalty and was insistent that it was a high tackle. Can't say I agreed but it does happen.
What was depressing was to watch us getting near the line and having no plan to get over and score. The absence of Harry Smith to give us something different was obvious near the end. Smithies was lucky not to be sin-binned for that shoulder charge and can expect another ban.
The loss will be worth it if we learn, adapt and play differently but I'm not holding my breath.
Whilst I agree with some of your post, it’s about striking a balance. If you start going wide all of the time, the defensive team don’t need to be compact in the middle and can spread out more. That means there isn’t the space out wide anymore.

It’s a combination of bartering down the middle to make the defence compact. Then to get it out wide and have decoy runners to keep them compact as you get it outwide and hopefully in space.
You're right about going wide all the time but battering down the middle is a holding operation until you can switch the play wide and then, because of our slow play, we've probably used up most of our tackles, a ground kicking game is crucial. George Williams kicking to our left flank was the most potent play we had in Wane's last years but we seem to hardly ever use it now unless Harry Smith is on the field. He's not the messiah but he does offer a something different which liberates Burgess, Gildart and Farrell.
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