Clubb suspended

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DaveO
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by DaveO »

ddtftf wrote:Well said Josie its served its purpose so lets move on regarding Clubb i would release him and move on
Taking the knee is obviously working given it seems to get under the skin of so many people thus keeps reminding them of the issue.

As to being banned from flying the Union Jack, this is a ridiculous claim. Plenty of people fly them at home and various public places do as well. I was at Gwrych Castle last weekend and there was a Union Jack and Welsh flag flying. No one bats an eye.The owners didn’t put the Union Jack up to have a racist dig at the local population!

Where there is an issue is when a flag is hijacked by people who are racist and use it as a symbol of their racism.
DaveO
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by DaveO »

Wintergreen wrote:
Mike wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:22 pm
Wintergreen wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:25 am Sorry but that is simply not true.
If they'd deemed this to be not worth a suspension, what would that decision have been taken on? Certainty?
The burden of proof is always on the party asserting the allegation, is it not?
Beyond reasonable doubt is the term I believe. That doesn’t always mean there is (and never has meant) incontrovertible evidence (though of course it’s preferable if there is). It means taking everything into account is it safe to assume guilt?

This happens all the time as it did here. Clubb clearly said something, the opposition player reacted and reported it. The QC will have put all this and whatever other information he had together to form an opinion. For all we know Clubb may even have admitted it but even if he didn’t it’s far from strange he was found guilty.
thegimble
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by thegimble »

DaveO wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:55 pm
ddtftf wrote:Well said Josie its served its purpose so lets move on regarding Clubb i would release him and move on
Taking the knee is obviously working given it seems to get under the skin of so many people thus keeps reminding them of the issue.

As to being banned from flying the Union Jack, this is a ridiculous claim. Plenty of people fly them at home and various public places do as well. I was at Gwrych Castle last weekend and there was a Union Jack and Welsh flag flying. No one bats an eye.The owners didn’t put the Union Jack up to have a racist dig at the local population!

Where there is an issue is when a flag is hijacked by people who are racist and use it as a symbol of their racism.
Bet if they lived in Gwynedd, Powys or Southern half of Anglesey it would .
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by Charriots Offiah »

Mike wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:20 pm
josie andrews wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:04 am
Mike wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:20 am

Why josie? Racism and lack of equality aren't a problem?
I just don’t like it Mike. Racism works both ways IMO but that’s just me I suppose.

We are told we can’t fly the Union Jack or an England flag at our homes in case it upsets someone! Can you imagine telling patriotic Americans they can’t fly the Star Spangled Banner outside their homes?

We, as English, are always worried about upsetting others with no regard about how it upsets us.

The world is just bloody crazy & I hate being a part of it now if truth be known!
Sounds a bit like you don't think racism exists? Or that you're as victimised as everyone else, so equality has been achieved?
But not for Jews. Who has been more persecuted than them? Even a major political party thought they were fair game!! How does anyone think this issue can be solved when the people that represent the masses are some of the biggest sinners?
fozzieskem
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Re: Tony Clubb

Post by fozzieskem »

Dan2266 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:39 pm https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2021/05/ ... ony-clubb/


Against racism to the tune of 2 weeks wages? I'm disappointed with the club to be honest.

Doesn't send out a good message does it.
No it doesn’t at least I thought his suspension would a couple of weeks not a couple of days.

Still they’ll stand for the 13vseconds no doubt.
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Mike
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by Mike »

fozzieskem wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:04 pm
Mike wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:19 pm
fozzieskem wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:28 am

And at present what is this action achieving?

Nothing hard come from it has it unless I’ve missed something,rascism is a much larger problem as we know that to boil it down to this.
The sport should only take action on racism if that action solves the issue? Just do nothing at all until then?
At first it was effective but much like,for instance the ice bucket challenge do it too often and it’s effect is lessened which is clearly happening.

It has to evolve and try to keep ahead of the curve because wether you believe it or not sport has tackled racism and tackled it well compared to the doom days of the 70s and ‘80’s,is it perfect no of course it isn’t but as I say the issue is much bigger than another “fad” (and I use that term because I can’t think of a better one”.
So what should the sport do then?
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Mike
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by Mike »

DaveO wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:04 pm
Wintergreen wrote:
Mike wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:22 pm

If they'd deemed this to be not worth a suspension, what would that decision have been taken on? Certainty?
The burden of proof is always on the party asserting the allegation, is it not?
Beyond reasonable doubt is the term I believe. That doesn’t always mean there is (and never has meant) incontrovertible evidence (though of course it’s preferable if there is). It means taking everything into account is it safe to assume guilt?

This happens all the time as it did here. Clubb clearly said something, the opposition player reacted and reported it. The QC will have put all this and whatever other information he had together to form an opinion. For all we know Clubb may even have admitted it but even if he didn’t it’s far from strange he was found guilty.
He did admit it based on the report from the tribunal. So that's fairly certain then!
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Mike
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Re: Tony Clubb

Post by Mike »

fozzieskem wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:12 am
Dan2266 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:39 pm https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2021/05/ ... ony-clubb/


Against racism to the tune of 2 weeks wages? I'm disappointed with the club to be honest.

Doesn't send out a good message does it.
No it doesn’t at least I thought his suspension would a couple of weeks not a couple of days.

Still they’ll stand for the 13vseconds no doubt.
Huh?
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Caboosegg
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Re: Tony Clubb

Post by Caboosegg »

fozzieskem wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:12 am
Dan2266 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:39 pm https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2021/05/ ... ony-clubb/


Against racism to the tune of 2 weeks wages? I'm disappointed with the club to be honest.

Doesn't send out a good message does it.
No it doesn’t at least I thought his suspension would a couple of weeks not a couple of days.

Still they’ll stand for the 13vseconds no doubt.
If the are not releasing him, then what more do you expect.

Most companies would suspend an employee on full pay, Clubb is going to lose 8 weeks of extra pay from not actually playing and the also lose 2 weeks pay.

It's a bigger hit than you think.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
morley pie eater
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by morley pie eater »

Another angle on all this:

I'd say that the discussion here shows that,assuming we're representative, Wigan supporters are overwhelmingly non-racist.

Yes, our views differ from "sack Clubb" to "Savelio should just ignore", but nowhere have I read a post that comes across even as closet racism.

The different opinions can be explained to a large extent by generational differences and the range of experiences. As I said before, growing up in Hindley in the 50s, the only black faces I saw were on the pitmen coming home from their shift at Plank Lane. I can clearly remember rhymes or my sisters' skipping songs which would be considered racist today. ["Do you like coffee? Do you like tea?...... ]

I can trace stages in my life where realisation dawned - particularly through news reports on the Civil Rights movement, South Africa, the Brixton Riots. So I've changed my actions in stages, but underneath this I've always been fundamentally non-racist.

Too much of modern social media and other discussion is about "calling out" anyone who disagrees with you. Here we have some disagreement about Clubb, but thankfully it's based on a common fair-minded view and, not least, support for the club of Boston, Tuigamala, Robinson, Offiah, French, Isa and Lam amongst a host of others.

(PS I'm assuming admin didn't have to delete dozens of racist posts :? )
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