Clubb suspended

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Coliflower
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:19 am

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by Coliflower » Tue May 04, 2021 9:41 pm

Sounds like a good plan Welski.
Who would we like to accuse first? Walmsley Sezer, Sam T ?

Caboosegg
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by Caboosegg » Tue May 04, 2021 9:54 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:01 pm
There was no way Clubb was walking away from this Scott free after a year of “taking the knee”he just wasn’t,now it does seem to have come down to a he said/she said situation which given the gravity of the charge,and how it’s likely to follow him round for evermore is not good enough.

Wigan should now quietly release him in the hope he can get on with his life as I’m now sure he has a career in RL left after this.
Do you think another club would touch him now.

As he's been charged I personally feel Wigan have to release him, bit the wording on the charge is so random.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell

Fizz Bomb
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by Fizz Bomb » Tue May 04, 2021 10:00 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:01 pm
There was no way Clubb was walking away from this Scott free after a year of “taking the knee”he just wasn’t,now it does seem to have come down to a he said/she said situation which given the gravity of the charge,and how it’s likely to follow him round for evermore is not good enough.

Wigan should now quietly release him in the hope he can get on with his life as I’m now sure he has a career in RL left after this.
Tony Clubb was not believed by His Honour Judge Guy Kearl QC and Andre Savelio was. A guilty verdict was always on the cards the way Tony Clubb was treated as guilty before the hearing. To find him not guilty would have gone against the anti racist stance of the RFL, and possibly Savelio saying he was not believed because he is Polynesian. At least Connor and Fash lost their appeal but inspite of the evidence showing him trying to knock Hardaker’s teeth out it was not classed as a frivolous appeal.Funny how some evidence is assumed correct and hard evidence can be ignored.

morley pie eater
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by morley pie eater » Tue May 04, 2021 10:13 pm

It seems that one or two comments here may be based on a misunderstanding of the QC saying that the panel were "reasonably satisfied" by Savelio's claim of what Clubb said.

In legal terms

"reasonably satisfied means satisfied on grounds that are reasonable in the circumstances."

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/r ... umstances.

It doesn't mean possibly, or maybe, or we're not completely sure.

josie andrews
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Location: Wigan
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by josie andrews » Tue May 04, 2021 10:20 pm

When are players going to stop this “take the knee?”

I don’t think there is a need for it especially when players raise their arm & make fist!
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage.

fozzieskem
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by fozzieskem » Tue May 04, 2021 10:21 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:54 pm
fozzieskem wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:01 pm
There was no way Clubb was walking away from this Scott free after a year of “taking the knee”he just wasn’t,now it does seem to have come down to a he said/she said situation which given the gravity of the charge,and how it’s likely to follow him round for evermore is not good enough.

Wigan should now quietly release him in the hope he can get on with his life as I’m now sure he has a career in RL left after this.
Do you think another club would touch him now.

As he's been charged I personally feel Wigan have to release him, bit the wording on the charge is so random.
curse of autocorrect Caboose,of course it should have read "not"and not "now",my fault for not checking, but no I think his career is at an end and to prolong it won't make things easier for him as he adjusts to life outside the sport.

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stevethegas
Posts: 482
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Re: Clubb suspended

Post by stevethegas » Tue May 04, 2021 10:22 pm

The RFL is a civil rather than a criminal court, so the burden of proof moves to the “most probable” rather than the “beyond any reasonable doubt” which would apply in a criminal trial.
Most people when falsely accused of something are vehement in their denial. We haven’t heard such a denial, so I guess that’s why the verdict is guilty.
Racism is wrong. No place for it now or ever. Rugby League has a proud history of inclusion, producing the first ever black captain of a British team, and great heroes such as Boston, Hanley, Offiah and so on.
It’s a history to be proud of and one we need to protect. So while lots may be said in the heat and excitement of a full blooded game, there is a line that can’t be crossed. This event sounds like it was, unfortunately.
Stevethegas

fozzieskem
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by fozzieskem » Tue May 04, 2021 10:25 pm

stevethegas wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:22 pm
The RFL is a civil rather than a criminal court, so the burden of proof moves to the “most probable” rather than the “beyond any reasonable doubt” which would apply in a criminal trial.
Most people when falsely accused of something are vehement in their denial. We haven’t heard such a denial, so I guess that’s why the verdict is guilty.
Racism is wrong. No place for it now or ever. Rugby League has a proud history of inclusion, producing the first ever black captain of a British team, and great heroes such as Boston, Hanley, Offiah and so on.
It’s a history to be proud of and one we need to protect. So while lots may be said in the heat and excitement of a full blooded game, there is a line that can’t be crossed. This event sounds like it was, unfortunately.
I agree with you,as the weekend dragged on and no word coming from Clubb I felt it was going to end like this,becuase club or no club if someone accused me and I hadn't said it id have been on the phone to a lawyer or some sort,regardless of what the club had told me to do.

DaveO
Posts: 14490
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by DaveO » Tue May 04, 2021 10:41 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
stevethegas wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:22 pm
The RFL is a civil rather than a criminal court, so the burden of proof moves to the “most probable” rather than the “beyond any reasonable doubt” which would apply in a criminal trial.
Most people when falsely accused of something are vehement in their denial. We haven’t heard such a denial, so I guess that’s why the verdict is guilty.
Racism is wrong. No place for it now or ever. Rugby League has a proud history of inclusion, producing the first ever black captain of a British team, and great heroes such as Boston, Hanley, Offiah and so on.
It’s a history to be proud of and one we need to protect. So while lots may be said in the heat and excitement of a full blooded game, there is a line that can’t be crossed. This event sounds like it was, unfortunately.
I agree with you,as the weekend dragged on and no word coming from Clubb I felt it was going to end like this,becuase club or no club if someone accused me and I hadn't said it id have been on the phone to a lawyer or some sort,regardless of what the club had told me to do.
Hard to say why there was nothing from Clubb but the window of opportunity to say anything was short. Savelio was all over the media with his claim and Clubb could have reacted instantly but soon after it was a disciplinary issue and it’s virtually unheard of for a player facing a potential disciplinary charge to comment publicly.

Wigan could have also banned him from commenting.

Whether his silence put him at a disadvantage we don’t know.

The QC and the panel had to make a judgement without the benefit of any recording but it’s not unusual for judgements to be made based on the balance of probabilities.

fozzieskem
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Clubb suspended

Post by fozzieskem » Tue May 04, 2021 11:31 pm

DaveO wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:41 pm
fozzieskem wrote:
stevethegas wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:22 pm
The RFL is a civil rather than a criminal court, so the burden of proof moves to the “most probable” rather than the “beyond any reasonable doubt” which would apply in a criminal trial.
Most people when falsely accused of something are vehement in their denial. We haven’t heard such a denial, so I guess that’s why the verdict is guilty.
Racism is wrong. No place for it now or ever. Rugby League has a proud history of inclusion, producing the first ever black captain of a British team, and great heroes such as Boston, Hanley, Offiah and so on.
It’s a history to be proud of and one we need to protect. So while lots may be said in the heat and excitement of a full blooded game, there is a line that can’t be crossed. This event sounds like it was, unfortunately.
I agree with you,as the weekend dragged on and no word coming from Clubb I felt it was going to end like this,becuase club or no club if someone accused me and I hadn't said it id have been on the phone to a lawyer or some sort,regardless of what the club had told me to do.
Hard to say why there was nothing from Clubb but the window of opportunity to say anything was short. Savelio was all over the media with his claim and Clubb could have reacted instantly but soon after it was a disciplinary issue and it’s virtually unheard of for a player facing a potential disciplinary charge to comment publicly.

Wigan could have also banned him from commenting.

Whether his silence put him at a disadvantage we don’t know.

The QC and the panel had to make a judgement without the benefit of any recording but it’s not unusual for judgements to be made based on the balance of probabilities.
Only saying for myself,heaven forbid to ever to put in the same situation,if I myself,club or not would have hired someone,but again it’s easy to say from behind a keyboard I’ll grant you.

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