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CheshireWarrior wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 10:18 am With all respects to everyone on here, I'd like to get back to the topic title 'Clubb suspended'. I appreciate this is a very sensitive and emotive subject, but it seems to have gone off course now to a political/interpretation debate and that's not what the original topic was designed for?

At this point now, I'm slightly confused, more so that Wigan Warriors haven't released an official statement (of any), yet Sky and BBC have?

The articles I've read on both Sky and BBC are relatively brief, but both highlight Tony Clubb has been charged.

Charged? What does this mean? Have the RFL actually obtained evidence (footage, mic, statements) or has he been charged simply as a result of the allegation? Investigated I 100% agree with, to be charged though?

Let me be crystal clear, if Tony Clubb is PROVEN to be guilty, I think he should be dismissed from the club and I think we as a club are very proactive in tackling ANY misconduct associated with us previously (to our credit).

I would like to go back to an earlier post I made (and standby), I still wouldn't like to pre-judge anything until clear facts are established and as i said above it is clearly PROVEN.

Maybe a statement will be provided after Tuesday.

pedro wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:30 am

morley pie eater wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:38 pm

Pbickerstaff wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:55 am You all go on about racism and the slave trade . This is historic, if everyone wants to be pedantic you can go back to the nazi and Jews, the Romans and the slaves they used in the collesium. It is historic but it is still not right. Calling some a English c—t or a Polynesian c—t is part of life it doesn’t physically hurt anyone. rise above it and concentrate on the other awful things that are happening in this world

I understand your "rise above it" advice, and said the same to my own kids when they complained about name-calling at school.

For you to apply it here equates petty, everyday casual name-calling of, say, a young kid at school, with abuse that some people suffer every day of their lives. I suspect that you've not experienced that and therefore haven't carefully considered that the two things are different.

Not only do they put up with abuse, but also find that they're disadvantaged in schooling, jobs, housing etc etc. And it's all based on one thing - their skin is a different colour to "ours".

If you put yourself in their shoes for a minute, how would you feel if some said "Rise above it, mate!" ?

how? Im sure it is in america but how is it over here?

Barney841 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm He’s a disgrace. Always thought 10 minute Clubb was abit of a bully but didn’t think he would make stoop this low.
Sacking is justified if he loses his appeal.

Barney841 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm He’s a disgrace. Always thought 10 minute Clubb was abit of a bully but didn’t think he would make stoop this low.
Sacking is justified if he loses his appeal.

Wintergreen wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:37 pm

Barney841 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm He’s a disgrace. Always thought 10 minute Clubb was abit of a bully but didn’t think he would make stoop this low.
Sacking is justified if he loses his appeal.

I really don't want to venture off topic as the point of this was "innocent until proven guilty" which I passionately agree with.

However, based on what he has allegedly said, do you really think it's worthy of sacking, of depriving someone from their livelihood?

I've been called a lot worse during Rugby games, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Where do you draw the line? Do you think race should be a special case? What about religion? What about other "hurtful" comments?
How do you judge what is or isn't offensive?
Anyway I'm going off topic.

Wintergreen wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:37 pm

Barney841 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm He’s a disgrace. Always thought 10 minute Clubb was abit of a bully but didn’t think he would make stoop this low.
Sacking is justified if he loses his appeal.

I really don't want to venture off topic as the point of this was "innocent until proven guilty" which I passionately agree with.

However, based on what he has allegedly said, do you really think it's worthy of sacking, of depriving someone from their livelihood?

I've been called a lot worse during Rugby games, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Where do you draw the line? Do you think race should be a special case? What about religion? What about other "hurtful" comments?
How do you judge what is or isn't offensive?
Anyway I'm going off topic.

wall_of_voodoo wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 6:19 pm

Wintergreen wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:37 pm

Barney841 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm He’s a disgrace. Always thought 10 minute Clubb was abit of a bully but didn’t think he would make stoop this low.
Sacking is justified if he loses his appeal.

I really don't want to venture off topic as the point of this was "innocent until proven guilty" which I passionately agree with.

However, based on what he has allegedly said, do you really think it's worthy of sacking, of depriving someone from their livelihood?

I've been called a lot worse during Rugby games, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Where do you draw the line? Do you think race should be a special case? What about religion? What about other "hurtful" comments?
How do you judge what is or isn't offensive?
Anyway I'm going off topic.

I don't think you've gone off topic wintergreen. If you remember Australian Union sacked Israel Folau for homophobic comments. When Catalans signed him there were plenty of RL chairmen (Wigan's included) against this. Indeed Folau's proposed move to St George collapsed as all the major sponsors threatened to drop the club if they went ahead and signed him

Can you honestly see Wigan play Tony Clubb again? Do you want Wigan to be associated with supporting players who have been found guilty of racist behavior? Would they themselves want to be associated? Can Lam etc ever look him in the face again knowing what he's said?

Not too sure of Hardaker previous misdemeanors but I'm sure the club felt he had been dealt with (at the time) and punished by his previous clubs.

For that reason Clubb will never play for Wigan again. We have to be seen to be taking a stance against this, even if it offends your moral judgement and means the player has to move on