Today’s team

[Exiled Wiganer]

I am happy with how we’re going, and think the plus side - all the young talent - far outweighs the negative. If our back next week is Zak - Dom - Isa - Gildart - Bibby suddenly we have a back line with players familiar with each position. And maybe Tommy back at 7 would help, though Smith is going well.

[DaveO]

Bateman had a poor game today but I think the expectations people are placing on him are unrealistic (not people on here as such but just in general) He won’t make line break after line break and score a couple of try’s a game now just because he’s had a good stint in the NRL. He didn’t do that before and it’s the same bloke. I read people saying how poor he was at Leigh last week. He made 37 tackles and ran for 162 metres in that game. He was one of the only players to come out of the Hull game with any credit. Is he at his best? I wouldn’t say so but if he cuts out the silly errors he’s let creep in, it won’t take much to get back there.

We have far far bigger issues than the form of John Bateman. The man trying to get the best out of Bateman being a major one.

It’s not a Bateman issue it’s a team issue. We are so disjointed in attack that it is hard to believe.

I think a big reason for this is lack of discipline giving away penalties. Lam's after match comments where he basically said he's not going to be mad at the players for another disjointed performance because we won does not inspire confidence we have a coach who can do his job. Who were the comments designed to please? The fans who can see the issues or the players who should be correcting them?

It sounded like an excuse for another overall poor performance with the same issues he as coach should have addressed already still on display.

[Charriots Offiah]

What is winning us games is our fitness and determination.

[Wiganer Ted]

I didn't see the game but whilst driving and listening to the match commentary it was said at one point we were 8-2 down on the pen count. Being away from home with Child as referee that number doesn't surprise me. A win under those circumstances and Lam's coaching and team selection seems quite remarkable.

The players are so fit and their determination to win is incredible. They deserve so much better.

[Firestarter]

I didn't see the game but whilst driving and listening to the match commentary it was said at one point we were 8-2 down on the pen count. Being away from home with Child as referee that number doesn't surprise me. A win under those circumstances and Lam's coaching and team selection seems quite remarkable.

The players are so fit and their determination to win is incredible. They deserve so much better.

The ref wasnt great ted…… he stopped the game flowing as did the ref for the leigh game……. Im not a ref basher but they are so inconsistent with the rules…… i just wish they would be more like the NRL refs

[Graham1]

We’ve been looking for a prop for 2 seasons looks like we had one all along, but never played him there. Greenwood’s been playing prop for Huddersfield and Leeds we’re going to play him there only for Covid. When it comes to choosing props we are useless. Obviously was not a Lam favourite and could not see what he had. But think that’s pretty obvious when he plays players totally out of position. Hardaker on the wing when we were crying out for a centre was barmy. But also had Bateman and Halsall to pick from. At least the full back position has been resolved for him by bad luck, but a blessing for the team, because Hardaker is the more safer in defence of the 2. We might be top for now but it will be interesting to see where we are after the next 4 weeks. And that’s with a stronger team. Lam may need to start to get angry.

[the pieman]

We’ve been looking for a prop for 2 seasons looks like we had one all along, but never played him there. Greenwood’s been playing prop for Huddersfield and Leeds we’re going to play him there only for Covid. When it comes to choosing props we are useless. Obviously was not a Lam favourite and could not see what he had. But think that’s pretty obvious when he plays players totally out of position. Hardaker on the wing when we were crying out for a centre was barmy. But also had Bateman and Halsall to pick from. At least the full back position has been resolved for him by bad luck, but a blessing for the team, because Hardaker is the more safer in defence of the 2. We might be top for now but it will be interesting to see where we are after the next 4 weeks. And that’s with a stronger team. Lam may need to start to get angry.

bit of contradiction in your post Graham1
Greenwood is an out and out 2nd row, and had issues with concussion whilst at Wigan. IMO he is not a prop unless Hudds have worked on bulking him up and toughening him up. So he is being played out of position

You then call Lam out for playing backs out of position (most will agree that some of his selections are baffling though), but its ok for someone else to do it with a former player. Wigans problem as we all know at the start of the season was that most of our backs were out injured or unavailable (and still are). whilst i dont necessarily agree with all of Lams decisions, his hand has been somewhat forced with what was his 1st choice full back, 2 1st choice wingers, 1st choice centre and at least 1 half back (Hastings and Tommy) missing

With regards to Zak v French, i suppose it depends on what you want from a full back as the role has changed somewhat over the last few years. i know quite a few like the dependency of Zak as he is defensivley sound, safe under the high ball, and not to shabby in attack, but IMO French adds another dimension to the attack when he plays FB, but not as dependable as Zak in other departments. i would say that Zak is more versatile ie competent centre also and IMO French is wasted on the wing as he is better linking in from behind the play

[Graham1]

I think you have missed the point I was trying to make in that both Agar and Watson have identified that Greenwood because of his size and weight and has a good offload is ideal to make the switch to prop permanently, not as a one off. Time will tell but Lam never even considered it but would rather have played 10 minute Tony. Lam plays people out of position for no reason, like Shorrocks when as you say he had a competent centre in Hardaker, what was the point in playing him there when we are struggling for centres.
I agree we have struggled for backs early on so what was the sense in letting Hankinson go out on loan as he could cover both centre and wing. Lam surely must have had an input into that. For the last few weeks we have had French, Manfredi, Bibby , Hardaker, Smith and Hastings available, 6 out of a possible 7 starting back line, but our attack has been awful. Yes Gildart might improve us but is it Bibby who will make way for him, as you could say he has been our best back.
I just don’t feel that Lam knows what his best team is and at the moment is not getting the best of what he has. If we had played the top 5 teams in the league instead of the bottom 5. I think it’s fair to say we would not be top of the league. Lam needs to improve as well as the team.

[the pieman]

I think you have missed the point I was trying to make in that both Agar and Watson have identified that Greenwood because of his size and weight and has a good offload is ideal to make the switch to prop permanently, not as a one off. Time will tell but Lam never even considered it but would rather have played 10 minute Tony. Lam plays people out of position for no reason, like Shorrocks when as you say he had a competent centre in Hardaker, what was the point in playing him there when we are struggling for centres.
I agree we have struggled for backs early on so what was the sense in letting Hankinson go out on loan as he could cover both centre and wing. Lam surely must have had an input into that. For the last few weeks we have had French, Manfredi, Bibby , Hardaker, Smith and Hastings available, 6 out of a possible 7 starting back line, but our attack has been awful. Yes Gildart might improve us but is it Bibby who will make way for him, as you could say he has been our best back.
I just don’t feel that Lam knows what his best team is and at the moment is not getting the best of what he has. If we had played the top 5 teams in the league instead of the bottom 5. I think it’s fair to say we would not be top of the league. Lam needs to improve as well as the team.

yep i did
however, i would still back it up that Greenwood whilst at Wigan IMO, didnt seem durable enough to play prop. He should have been a destructive back row, and i completely agree about his offload. Part of the problem is that both Greenwood and Farrell are left sided, and the vast majority on here prefer Farrell as he is far more effective and been running those attacking lines since day 1. I will agree therefore that Lam should have made better use of the tools at his disposal in the backrow

i'll disagree on the numbers for our starting back line. i reckon only 4 of what would be our starting 7 are available (French (now injured), Manfredi (back for 2 weeks), Hardaker and Hastings). Bibby has certainly put his hand up and at the minute it is for Marshall to displace him as 1st choice. The French injury as you said, resolves the FB issue short term, but still leaves us with the problem of who best fits the centre / wing position until we get everyone back and fully fit

I would say that the majority would have gone with the below as the starting back line for this season (on basis all fit)

French, Manfredi, Hardaker, Gildart, Marshall, Hastings, Tommy with Smith, Bibby and Field as competition

[No straw damn us]

Bateman had a poor game today but I think the expectations people are placing on him are unrealistic (not people on here as such but just in general) He won’t make line break after line break and score a couple of try’s a game now just because he’s had a good stint in the NRL. He didn’t do that before and it’s the same bloke. I read people saying how poor he was at Leigh last week. He made 37 tackles and ran for 162 metres in that game. He was one of the only players to come out of the Hull game with any credit. Is he at his best? I wouldn’t say so but if he cuts out the silly errors he’s let creep in, it won’t take much to get back there.

We have far far bigger issues than the form of John Bateman. The man trying to get the best out of Bateman being a major one.

He made 130 metres and made 28 tackles in that Salford game, he's in the top twenty for meters made this season and top ten for tackles made.
However he did throw two interceptions passes and that attempt on Jack Wells was really poor and most unlike him.
Looking at todays League Express the penalty count was 10 - 5 against us, that was the major problem.

Are we as poor as many are saying? No, we're the second highest try scorers , so we're doing something right.

Are we anywhere near where we should be? No, but there are reasons and I do think we'll get better.

Will we be good enough to go on and win it?

Having watched the rest of the teams I honestly don't know because there doesn't appear to be a standout team at the moment.

The next two games v Catalan and Huddersfield will probably tell us a bit more.