Wigan seem largely incapable of finding players unless they are unknowns like Field, ex Wigan players wanting to return or fall into our lap for some other reason like Hardaker who was sacked or Singleton who was only available because Toronto folded.
As a result a lot our recruitment looks opportunistic at best. We lost Burgess, Flower and our biggest back row in Greenwood only adding Bateman to the pack but went and recruited another back in Field.
We are now linked with Thornley and even Gellling. Two more ex Wigan players who weren’t good enough.
The recruitment looks all over the shop and while there are some good signings like Hastings every now and again, the rest seem to occur just because they are available and not with an obvious plan to address a particular need.
Field looked very exciting but I don’t really know why we went for him when the money needed to be spent elsewhere.
Recruitment
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fozzieskem
- Posts: 6494
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am
Re: Recruitment
It’s hard to disagree with you Dave to be honest.
Let’s take French,yes he’s exciting and I love watching him play but did Wigan at that time need him?im not so sure the club did at that point,I said at the time and still stand by this French he was a luxury signing,the club needed players elsewhere,it was true then and is by far true now,but I do love watching hIm play.
The signing of Burgess bordered on incompetence,whoever sign his transfer off should have gone it was clear on that cold January night something wasn’t right with him most could see it in the stands why not the medical people?
Flower had to go he was a fine servant but let’s be fair had become injury prone it’s alright saying he should still be her but what’s the point when he spends a lot of time injured but he should have been replaced certainly not by Burgess or Clarke,the over reliance on young players has to stop,Hr]vard and Smithers need time away from the first team,their form isn’t great but of course because the club is so stretched by injury and frankly players who aren’t perhaps good enough they have to play.
Lam…I’m just not sure he’s the right man for the job,excuses made for him don’t stand now this is his team and his frankly wacky and weird team selections leave me bemused at times.
Let’s take French,yes he’s exciting and I love watching him play but did Wigan at that time need him?im not so sure the club did at that point,I said at the time and still stand by this French he was a luxury signing,the club needed players elsewhere,it was true then and is by far true now,but I do love watching hIm play.
The signing of Burgess bordered on incompetence,whoever sign his transfer off should have gone it was clear on that cold January night something wasn’t right with him most could see it in the stands why not the medical people?
Flower had to go he was a fine servant but let’s be fair had become injury prone it’s alright saying he should still be her but what’s the point when he spends a lot of time injured but he should have been replaced certainly not by Burgess or Clarke,the over reliance on young players has to stop,Hr]vard and Smithers need time away from the first team,their form isn’t great but of course because the club is so stretched by injury and frankly players who aren’t perhaps good enough they have to play.
Lam…I’m just not sure he’s the right man for the job,excuses made for him don’t stand now this is his team and his frankly wacky and weird team selections leave me bemused at times.
Re: Recruitment
We're definitely opportunist recruiters, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Our best years were created by this strategy with the Melbourne cheaters having to loan us some of their best - we were striaght in to get those high quality players on the cheap. I don't think that is the case for all our signings, but we do seem to recruit in an unbalanced way. I remember under Wane we just kept signing second rows, when that was the last position that neeed strengthening. At the time I thought maybe it was Wane recruiting in his own image, but perhaps they were good value so we went for them regardless of squad balance?
Anyway, this season is squaring up to be a big one recruitment-wise with a big chunk of the squad and some key players departing. I won't be expecting every name brought in to be a super-star because that's unreasonable/impossible. I would expect the balance to be about what we've heard so far - a big name (George Williams) for every cheaper squad player (Iain Thornley). I have not problem with that - its the neccessary outcome of the salary cap to spread the talent out around the competition. The key is selecting the right players to spend your money on and filling the rest of the squad with good value.
Anyway, this season is squaring up to be a big one recruitment-wise with a big chunk of the squad and some key players departing. I won't be expecting every name brought in to be a super-star because that's unreasonable/impossible. I would expect the balance to be about what we've heard so far - a big name (George Williams) for every cheaper squad player (Iain Thornley). I have not problem with that - its the neccessary outcome of the salary cap to spread the talent out around the competition. The key is selecting the right players to spend your money on and filling the rest of the squad with good value.
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The Yonner
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:02 pm
Re: Recruitment
In Graham Lowe and John Monie's time, players showing bad discipline or deviating from the game plan would find themselves promptly substituted and facing a spell in the reserves. Of course now the coach can't do that because there are no reserves, players get complacent and there is no deterrent to "doing your own thing".
That means to succeed there needs to be a fine balance of size, speed, experience and controlled youthful exuberance. And as many posters have said, the balance is all wrong.
We repeatedly move to strengthen in positions that don't need it - chasing Williams is the latest example - and neglect others where the younger guys are clearly struggling.
I said before that resigning players back from spells in NRL has almost never worked out, and we see it again with Bateman. I don't expect Williams to be any different - badly overrated in any case.
We need a better coach for next season, of course we do, but whoever it is needs to be involved with the hiring and firing, and allowed an amount of freedom to bring his own people in. That way you might get a balanced squad which the coach can develop. As it is we have a squad like a camel - a horse built by a committee.
That means to succeed there needs to be a fine balance of size, speed, experience and controlled youthful exuberance. And as many posters have said, the balance is all wrong.
We repeatedly move to strengthen in positions that don't need it - chasing Williams is the latest example - and neglect others where the younger guys are clearly struggling.
I said before that resigning players back from spells in NRL has almost never worked out, and we see it again with Bateman. I don't expect Williams to be any different - badly overrated in any case.
We need a better coach for next season, of course we do, but whoever it is needs to be involved with the hiring and firing, and allowed an amount of freedom to bring his own people in. That way you might get a balanced squad which the coach can develop. As it is we have a squad like a camel - a horse built by a committee.
Re: Recruitment
2 great emails. They are bang on. I know Rads is the main man for recruitment but Lam must have been the driving force behind French and Field. Even he admitted when he signed them he didn’t where they were going to play?. As far as I can see the pack should be the main focus. That’s were the majority of our salary cap should go, no point in signing Williams playing behind our current forwards, ask Hastings the best half back in SL. If Williams is undecided I think this weekend will have made his mind up. Our young forwards development has hit a brick wall we are slowly killing them. Even Bateman is shadow of himself and on current form not worthy of a starting place for England. Hopefully, we are on the lookout for a new coach for next season because Lam has not delivered. Whoever it is he has have a big say in recruitment. We need another big clear out, Powell, isa, clubb, clark and Leulali, need to be released to free up more space on the salary cap. And replaced with 2 props, hooker, centre and a back row forward as currently ours are too small. If an experienced half back comes along without paying a fortune, could be worth a punt. As to whether Smith and Field are the answer, jury open. This is not an knee jerk reaction to yesterday’s result as it’s been coming if we had played the top 5 instead of the bottom 5, we would have seen yesterday’s result weeks ago. Will we do better against Huddersfield, don’t think so. Same thing will happen can’t get out of our half, with Huddersfield camped on our line. Only hope Rads starts to realise we are in a mess and is on the look out for some new blood for next season, as for this season it’s too late. Catalans is only the start.
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EagleEyePie
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm
Re: Recruitment
No club ever gets recruitment 100% spot on but we do seem to have had some dodgy signings in recent times.
I've no issue with the club signing French. He's a star player, good teams need star players and he's a better fullback than Hardaker. I know a lot of people didn't like the idea of Hardaker playing centre but last season French at 1 and Zak at 3 worked well. We had outstanding cover at fullback and a very strong defensive presence on that right edge. He wasn't the greatest attacking threat but Gildart was limited when playing that right side - most teams attack better down their left edge than their right. French was good recruitment for me.
The signing of Greenwood in Wane's last season also seemed like good recruitment - if a little fortunate because we knew Bateman was leaving and Greenwood became available immediately. Greenwood's size on the edges gave us something different, added a new threat and made us incredibly dangerous in that Grand Final winning year. Then injuries cost him and he lost form. Last season he played better and was a threat, but I don't think he played well enough to earn a new contract. He did show that we benefit a lot from having a different sort of threat on our edges - someone with size who is capable of an offload and can't be brought down easily.
Bringing back Bateman? Fair enough, most would have wanted him back. He was good in the NRL. Played incredibly well for us. It was inevitable.
Signing Field? I can understand the signing in terms of few players being available at the time and no guarantee we'd be able to convince Hastings and French to stay. The only issue is once we did confirm Hastings and French we were left with an unbalanced squad. It's a risk I think we had to take though just in case.
Bibby? I'm still on the fence with him. We let Sarginson go who wasn't an ideal centre but was a phenomenally hard worker. Bibby for me also doesn't seem to be an ideal centre - I don't think I've seen him pass the ball when playing in that position. He makes a strong carry but for me not enough of them. When you consider we lost Sarginson and Davies in recent years - Bibby's work rate doesn't compare. He's done well on the wing and I've no concerns when he plays there. He's also very strong in the tackle. For me Bibby is destined for the back row.
Hastings was a good signing, Hardaker proved to be a good signing. I think our recruitment looks pretty good....until you get to the front row.
The good
2011 - Jeff Lima - Exactly what we needed at the time. Fit in well with our pack. Absolute workhorse
The decent
2012 - Ben Flower - Never outstanding but became a key player and one of the smartest defenders
2014 - Tony Clubb - In his early years a decent signing.
2020 - Brad Singleton - Helped us get to a Grand Final. Decent player. Not the sort of prop we desperately need but also the sort of prop all clubs do need within the team.
The one's that did okay but then went on to better things at other clubs
2012- Gil Dudson - An okay player for us. Became a reasonably good player at Salford but nothing special
2013 - Scott Taylor - Very hit and miss - now a very good prop for Hull
2015 - Lee Mossop - Nowhere near as good as he was before he left - but became better than all our current props while at Salford. Not quite as good now though.
The short term signings to fill a gap?
2011 - Ben Cross - Pretty much nothing to report. It happened, then he got injured.
2014 - Jordan James - Was a stop gap and actually did okay for about 15 games. Never Wigan quality but couldn't fault the effort at the time and felt harsh putting either of these two in the bad list.
The bad
2012 - Epalahame Lauaki - Wasn't even a prop - just a second row who had 1 good game
2014 - Andy Powell - Remember him? - awful, awful signing
2014 - Eddy Pettybourne - Poor overall. Not good enough for the level he was expected to play at
2014 - Sam Hopkins (
)
2015 - Taulima Tautai - Had an outstanding season for Wakefield before he signed - never used in the same way for us and got progressively worse (except for 4 weeks before he signed a contract extension)
2015 - Larne Patrick - A nothing signing - offered very little - disappeared into obscurity after that
2016 - Frank Paul Nu'uasala - Just no
2017 - Romain Navarrete - Started in a Grand Final but poor overall
2018 - Gabriel Hamlin - Was hit and miss - maybe had potential but was an idiot and also exactly the same as most of our other props. Small and hard working
2019 - Joe Bullock - Showed some potential - had moments but now ultimately looks like another poor signing. Hardly gets any minutes on the field and hasn't looked the part
2020 - George Burgess - One of the most expensive mistakes the club has ever made
2020 - Mitch Clark - One of Super League’s most destructive forwards who has built the reputation as one the league’s fiercest middles. Just kidding. Awful.
Should also lump Tony Clubb in the bad category for his most recent contract extension. Never at any point looked good enough in the last two years. What were the club thinking?
I've no issue with the club signing French. He's a star player, good teams need star players and he's a better fullback than Hardaker. I know a lot of people didn't like the idea of Hardaker playing centre but last season French at 1 and Zak at 3 worked well. We had outstanding cover at fullback and a very strong defensive presence on that right edge. He wasn't the greatest attacking threat but Gildart was limited when playing that right side - most teams attack better down their left edge than their right. French was good recruitment for me.
The signing of Greenwood in Wane's last season also seemed like good recruitment - if a little fortunate because we knew Bateman was leaving and Greenwood became available immediately. Greenwood's size on the edges gave us something different, added a new threat and made us incredibly dangerous in that Grand Final winning year. Then injuries cost him and he lost form. Last season he played better and was a threat, but I don't think he played well enough to earn a new contract. He did show that we benefit a lot from having a different sort of threat on our edges - someone with size who is capable of an offload and can't be brought down easily.
Bringing back Bateman? Fair enough, most would have wanted him back. He was good in the NRL. Played incredibly well for us. It was inevitable.
Signing Field? I can understand the signing in terms of few players being available at the time and no guarantee we'd be able to convince Hastings and French to stay. The only issue is once we did confirm Hastings and French we were left with an unbalanced squad. It's a risk I think we had to take though just in case.
Bibby? I'm still on the fence with him. We let Sarginson go who wasn't an ideal centre but was a phenomenally hard worker. Bibby for me also doesn't seem to be an ideal centre - I don't think I've seen him pass the ball when playing in that position. He makes a strong carry but for me not enough of them. When you consider we lost Sarginson and Davies in recent years - Bibby's work rate doesn't compare. He's done well on the wing and I've no concerns when he plays there. He's also very strong in the tackle. For me Bibby is destined for the back row.
Hastings was a good signing, Hardaker proved to be a good signing. I think our recruitment looks pretty good....until you get to the front row.
The good
2011 - Jeff Lima - Exactly what we needed at the time. Fit in well with our pack. Absolute workhorse
The decent
2012 - Ben Flower - Never outstanding but became a key player and one of the smartest defenders
2014 - Tony Clubb - In his early years a decent signing.
2020 - Brad Singleton - Helped us get to a Grand Final. Decent player. Not the sort of prop we desperately need but also the sort of prop all clubs do need within the team.
The one's that did okay but then went on to better things at other clubs
2012- Gil Dudson - An okay player for us. Became a reasonably good player at Salford but nothing special
2013 - Scott Taylor - Very hit and miss - now a very good prop for Hull
2015 - Lee Mossop - Nowhere near as good as he was before he left - but became better than all our current props while at Salford. Not quite as good now though.
The short term signings to fill a gap?
2011 - Ben Cross - Pretty much nothing to report. It happened, then he got injured.
2014 - Jordan James - Was a stop gap and actually did okay for about 15 games. Never Wigan quality but couldn't fault the effort at the time and felt harsh putting either of these two in the bad list.
The bad
2012 - Epalahame Lauaki - Wasn't even a prop - just a second row who had 1 good game
2014 - Andy Powell - Remember him? - awful, awful signing
2014 - Eddy Pettybourne - Poor overall. Not good enough for the level he was expected to play at
2014 - Sam Hopkins (
)2015 - Taulima Tautai - Had an outstanding season for Wakefield before he signed - never used in the same way for us and got progressively worse (except for 4 weeks before he signed a contract extension)
2015 - Larne Patrick - A nothing signing - offered very little - disappeared into obscurity after that
2016 - Frank Paul Nu'uasala - Just no
2017 - Romain Navarrete - Started in a Grand Final but poor overall
2018 - Gabriel Hamlin - Was hit and miss - maybe had potential but was an idiot and also exactly the same as most of our other props. Small and hard working
2019 - Joe Bullock - Showed some potential - had moments but now ultimately looks like another poor signing. Hardly gets any minutes on the field and hasn't looked the part
2020 - George Burgess - One of the most expensive mistakes the club has ever made
2020 - Mitch Clark - One of Super League’s most destructive forwards who has built the reputation as one the league’s fiercest middles. Just kidding. Awful.
Should also lump Tony Clubb in the bad category for his most recent contract extension. Never at any point looked good enough in the last two years. What were the club thinking?
Re: Recruitment
It's Interesting to see how people remember previous signing and a.shame that most seem to be remember for the mistakes.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
Re: Recruitment
Why don't I remember Sam Hopkins, Was he that bad?
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Southport steve
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:36 am
Re: Recruitment
Who knows. He apparently fell out with waney and didn’t play a game for us
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josie andrews
- Posts: 35725
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:17 pm
- Location: Wigan
- Contact:
Re: Recruitment
He was signed from Leigh then sent back to Leigh on a season long loan which continued the following season until the club released him!
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan