Lam out !! ??

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bertina
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:29 pm

Lam out !! ??

Post by bertina »

Nobody is more frustrated than me with what we are currently watching, but what I don’t get is how it is all Lam’s fault.
The players he has at his disposal are just not good enough.
A midget pack that struggle to get out of their own 25 after 5 tackles, and half his back line missing. To be fair, what is he supposed to be able to do ?.
With the current crop of players available at Wigan, does anyone honestly believe that, Wayne Bennett, Michael McGuire, Ricky Stuart, or any other so called top coach, could get us where we want to be?. I doubt it.
A blind man can see we need 2 big props, and a 9, plus our first choice backs available. Without any additional clout in the front row this season we are screwed.
Caboosegg
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by Caboosegg »

Lams tactics, Lams game plan, if the players are not preforming to expected standards it's Lams job to fix/motivate.

Trying to shift the blame to IL/KR is old hat, regardless of what we need, these players without any big props have preformed much better than they currently have this year.

Do I think there's no issue with the Squad. No there 100% is and Lam is involved in that, but getting nilled is on the coach just as much as the players if not more.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
Big stick
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by Big stick »

Even with a full back line and 2 new props and a new 9 We wouldn’t get any input from Lam. Last year we did well on the back of the teams effort not because of Lams tactics. See out the rest of the year with him and look elsewhere perhaps see how Goulding fairs
medlocke
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by medlocke »

Isn't it funny that whenever we lose it's Lammie's fault and when we win it's down to the player
When we win It's all praises for the Wigan Youngsters
When we lose your not allowed to say boo to a goose or you will be accused of not being a Super Fan
Lam has had 3 seasons and it hasn't worked out thank's to shoddy recruitment
Time for a clear out
Several new players needed
New coach that has had nothing to do with Wigan in the past is also needed
Recruitment needs to be taken out Rads hands, He is not good at it
Job's for the boys culture needs to be brought to an end
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Mike
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by Mike »

Big stick wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 7:47 am Even with a full back line and 2 new props and a new 9 We wouldn’t get any input from Lam. Last year we did well on the back of the teams effort not because of Lams tactics.
People made up their minds about Lam before he even arrived. Just look at the above. If we win the GF this season the same posters as usual will still want Lam out, with some of them calling for an Aussie assistant coach to be brought in, which is what Lam was. I wonder if his face doesn't fit for them somehow.
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Barney841
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by Barney841 »

I’ve never been a fan of Lam.
He said he would change things and put a stamp on his team(which you should do as a coach) but never has changed.
Big stick
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by Big stick »

Mike wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:52 am
Big stick wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 7:47 am Even with a full back line and 2 new props and a new 9 We wouldn’t get any input from Lam. Last year we did well on the back of the teams effort not because of Lams tactics.
People made up their minds about Lam before he even arrived. Just look at the above. If we win the GF this season the same posters as usual will still want Lam out, with some of them calling for an Aussie assistant coach to be brought in, which is what Lam was. I wonder if his face doesn't fit for them somehow.
An you feel Lam is getting the best out of this squad?

We will wait and see what happens. I doubt the club are sat on their hands about getting these much needed players . I’m sure this “ expansive attacking rugby” will materialise soon :lol:
jackthelad
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm

Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by jackthelad »

Lam has brought all this criticism on himself he has made statements to the effect we will play an attractive style etc..

He is somewhat in a rock and a hard place but his decisions, team selection and positional changes irrespective of injuries have been extremely poor

Not defending Zak whatsoever, yet can't help think he was on fire enjoying being fb then Lam moved him to WING!!! it's all gone downhill since

Lam has not improved this squad, we
Will not win the GF if we actually get there unless we have a massive change of direction
Barney841
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by Barney841 »

jackthelad wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 9:28 am Lam has brought all this criticism on himself he has made statements to the effect we will play an attractive style etc..

He is somewhat in a rock and a hard place but his decisions, team selection and positional changes irrespective of injuries have been extremely poor

Not defending Zak whatsoever, yet can't help think he was on fire enjoying being fb then Lam moved him to WING!!! it's all gone downhill since

Lam has not improved this squad, we
Will not win the GF if we actually get there unless we have a massive change of direction
That’s exactly what I mean.
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Lam out !! ??

Post by EagleEyePie »

I don't think Lam has shown enough to suggest he's the ideal man for the job but I also don't think the team is that far off what it was under Wane. The performances during the season are incredibly similar (including embarrassing heavy defeats). It's the number of trophies we have to show that's the issue. That may come down to Wane's better motivational skills in the big games or it may just be that our weakness, the front row, wasn't quite as weak under Wane as it is now.

How much can you blame Lam? Well our injuries aren't his fault, and we've dealt with the injuries to the backs quite well. Despite panicked calls to bring back players from the Championship that aspect of the team hasn't been as bad as it could have been.

Our pack isn't playing well but is that Lam or is it just reality hitting home? Our best metre-maker last season was Havard by some distance but he's suffering a bit of second season syndrome right now. That happens with young players. Ideally you'd take him out the firing line on occasion but how do we do that right now when we've little competition for places?
We had Singleton come into the side at the back end of last year and that helped, as would the experience of Flower and Clubb returning and having O'Loughlin to call on. None of those players were near their best but they are all solid defensively.
Bullock is one player who could potentially give us some strong carries but he's nowhere near the level he was at last year. Again, I don't think you can blame Lam since he was the one coaching Bullock last season. It looks like a fitness issue at present, although he's had these dips in form throughout he time with us.

We don't have any prop making decent metres like we did last year so that aspect of the front row is weaker. We're also very reliant on Havard and Byrne and they will make more mistakes defensively than O'Loughlin, Clubb and Flower did at the end of last season because of their relative inexperience.
Shorrocks is getting plenty of games and is a good prospect but he's too small to really make a difference to our metre making.

In the last few years our back row could always be relied upon to be outstanding but even that's slipped in quality, largely through Bateman. You can't blame the coach for that. He's making errors and missing tackles and quite frequently those mistakes have led to tries. That's something for Bateman to fix. If a player said they were dropping the ball because the coach isn't good enough tactically you'd never take them seriously.

Smithies is doing okay in the back row although he's not the threat that Farrell is. He's more like Isa was but on the left edge. That should be fine given we have Bateman on the right but at the moment it's not.

We've also generally had a very strong group of outside backs to carry us through in our recent history. French; Manfredi, Hardaker, Gildart, Marshall/Burgess is a very threatening back line and one that helped us get over the line in games where we'd been dominated in the pack. There's pace and agility there and they make good metres in our own 30 too. It's certainly better than Hardaker; Bibby, Isa, Farrell, Hanley that we had at the start of the year, or Hardaker; Manfredi, Bibby, Farrell, Hanley that we had against Catalans. Isa and Farrell are good metre makers but aren't as quick or as dynamic as the players they've replaced in the backline. Hanley lacks physical presence for a winger. Bibby is quick over distance but lacks acceleration and his doesn't make the number of carries that Gildart and Hardaker did at centre or that Marshall did on the wing.

Basically, looking at the team we've got, I kind of expect us to play poorly right now. I think we've had a team that can make up for our weakness in the front row over the last few years (going back to Wane) but now the front row is even weaker, mistakes our coming from our usually strong back row and there's injuries in the outside backs. Not a good situation to be in.

To be fair to Lam, the moment he signed for us he said we needed to get bigger and strong in the pack. The recruitment to do that hasn't been in any way successful. I'm not sure how much you can blame Lam for the recruitment given our questionable signings in the front row goes back many years.

It feels like people look at the likes of Saints, Wire and Catalans and see some big scores being put on teams and dominant performances and expect Lam to have developed some free-flowing rugby revolution. Look at the pack those teams have. Look at the pack we have. Sure, we could throw the ball around and hope for the best, but that's what teams with little hope of winning trophies do - and it generally fails. The teams that dominate games pretty much always do so in the pack and have a pack that plays well consistently, with good metre makers.
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