Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

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wall_of_voodoo
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by wall_of_voodoo »

Whilst fans are criticized for having "whipping boys" which in itself is rubbish because whenever we play badly ALL the players get the criticism they deserve.

What we have is fans that can be accused of being so blinkered to the obvious that they will support substandard no matter what

I had many an argument with some on here claiming Joel T was worthy of his first team sport. He was garbage since his return from union and in some games exceptionally lazy yet it took the "rectum of Wigan" comments to shuffle him off. I have no doubt he would still be at the club if some had their way

With the current mindset of some fans we would never have signed Martin Offiah because David Myers was "perfectly adequate". Ditto any quality players. Why sign Trent Barrett when Danny Orr was a perfectly good organising half?

Whilst 90% of Wigan's problems are down to the five (poor) drives and aimless kick mentality of Lam, the rest is down to poor recruitment/retention and they say in sport that if you're standing still then you're going backwards
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Funny isn’t it for the argument of wane and lam playing Sam

Answer this

What other option has lam actually had? Tommy? But then there’s no half back

Since mickey mac left Sam Powell has been the only “hooker” at the club so what other option has any coach of wigan got? Amir b is still far too young and I don’t think he will make the grade tbh from what I’ve seen

Funny isn’t it wane has selected 4 hookers for England and Sam p isn’t there
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by EagleEyePie »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:20 pm Funny isn’t it for the argument of wane and lam playing Sam

Answer this

What other option has lam actually had? Tommy? But then there’s no half back

Since mickey mac left Sam Powell has been the only “hooker” at the club so what other option has any coach of wigan got? Amir b is still far too young and I don’t think he will make the grade tbh from what I’ve seen

Funny isn’t it wane has selected 4 hookers for England and Sam p isn’t there
Lam has said Hastings' best position is hooker, so the obvious option if he didn't rate Powell would be to play Leuluai and Smith in the halves as he did when Powell was injured last year. When Lam first arrived in 2019 we had Jarrod Sammut who could have allowed Leuluai or Williams to play 9. When he signed Bevan French he mentioned him being an option at 6, which could have been another way of pushing Hastings or Leuluai to 9.

He hasn't done those things because he clearly rates Powell. You can tell that by how often he's picked Powell out for praise after games.
AndyNick
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by AndyNick »

Protest all you like that we don't have whipping boys, but it's true. It happens season in season out. Certain players will cop a lot more stick than others. When Gelling first arrived he was one. There wasn't a game went by where someone didn't refer to Dan Sarginson as the turnstile despite the fact there were far worse tackle stats than his. Hankinson wasn't fit to burn whenever he played and now we've got people kicking off because we let him go on loan.
Every match someone will trot out the line "Not Wigan Standard" It was easy when we were the only professional team and there wasn't a salary cap. Now you've got to balance everything and form a competitive squad. He might not be a world beater but Sam Powell is a solid super league hooker and to get another hooker in who would make a noticeable difference would mean taking up a lot more cap space.
Every year we have a rough patch early on but come October we'll be there or thereabouts... Again.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

EagleEyePie wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:10 pm
Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:20 pm Funny isn’t it for the argument of wane and lam playing Sam

Answer this

What other option has lam actually had? Tommy? But then there’s no half back

Since mickey mac left Sam Powell has been the only “hooker” at the club so what other option has any coach of wigan got? Amir b is still far too young and I don’t think he will make the grade tbh from what I’ve seen

Funny isn’t it wane has selected 4 hookers for England and Sam p isn’t there
Lam has said Hastings' best position is hooker, so the obvious option if he didn't rate Powell would be to play Leuluai and Smith in the halves as he did when Powell was injured last year. When Lam first arrived in 2019 we had Jarrod Sammut who could have allowed Leuluai or Williams to play 9. When he signed Bevan French he mentioned him being an option at 6, which could have been another way of pushing Hastings or Leuluai to 9.

He hasn't done those things because he clearly rates Powell. You can tell that by how often he's picked Powell out for praise after games.
Play the best half back in the league at hooker? And move a youth player into a starting line up with an aging other half who was never the greatest half himself?

Jarrod Sammut - I mean really - come on he was never seriously going to be used in anything other than an emergency

French is as much of a 6 as hardaker is a prop - drench doesn’t want to play 6 never has and should never do

The fact is I’ve already said - Sam powell isn’t a bad player, so it would be pointless moving others round just to get him out the team but that’s not mine or others suggestion. The point we are making is bring in a proper hooker with more tools to improve the team all round - all you’ve suggested there is moving people out of position to cover 9 as some way of competition - that’s not competition - competition is having someone who plays your position available - that’s why I say the coach’s have had no other options that don’t weaken the squad elsewhere
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

AndyNick wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:08 am Protest all you like that we don't have whipping boys, but it's true. It happens season in season out. Certain players will cop a lot more stick than others. When Gelling first arrived he was one. There wasn't a game went by where someone didn't refer to Dan Sarginson as the turnstile despite the fact there were far worse tackle stats than his. Hankinson wasn't fit to burn whenever he played and now we've got people kicking off because we let him go on loan.
Every match someone will trot out the line "Not Wigan Standard" It was easy when we were the only professional team and there wasn't a salary cap. Now you've got to balance everything and form a competitive squad. He might not be a world beater but Sam Powell is a solid super league hooker and to get another hooker in who would make a noticeable difference would mean taking up a lot more cap space.
Every year we have a rough patch early on but come October we'll be there or thereabouts... Again.
Funny though isn’t is these “whipping” boys are never the best players and more often than not these high standard players who the fans are just mean about end up at much poorer teams after leaving

Has Farrell ever been the whipping boy? Or hasting? - no because they consistently perform - sarginson was a better fullback than centre but is at the right club now - gelling was always completely random never reliable fans don’t make that stuff up you chose to see it or not
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Caboosegg
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by Caboosegg »

wall_of_voodoo wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:13 pm Whilst fans are criticized for having "whipping boys" which in itself is rubbish because whenever we play badly ALL the players get the criticism they deserve.

What we have is fans that can be accused of being so blinkered to the obvious that they will support substandard no matter what

I had many an argument with some on here claiming Joel T was worthy of his first team sport. He was garbage since his return from union and in some games exceptionally lazy yet it took the "rectum of Wigan" comments to shuffle him off. I have no doubt he would still be at the club if some had their way

With the current mindset of some fans we would never have signed Martin Offiah because David Myers was "perfectly adequate". Ditto any quality players. Why sign Trent Barrett when Danny Orr was a perfectly good organising half?

Whilst 90% of Wigan's problems are down to the five (poor) drives and aimless kick mentality of Lam, the rest is down to poor recruitment/retention and they say in sport that if you're standing still then you're going backwards
Your argument clinches on using examples of pre salary cap rugby. You can't have super stars in every spot or even the best players, so you look at average player who have the odd burst of excellence in them which Joel T and Gelling a ls a combo had (don't believe me re watch some matches) that allow you to try and get superstars in other areas.

And 100% whipping boys do exist there is always players the vocal minority lambast no matter what and your right when the team play bad everyone does get complained about but the whipping boys get absoloutly blasted.

You see it this year already Bateman has been nowhere near his standard he made loads of errors and has lost the ball alot but the person who gets the blame for the right side attack faltering was Bibby or Isa because they are not this none existent 'Wigan Standard'.

It may be a hard to hear but apart from those doing it on the cheap everyone has the same cap and can recruit players of the same standard, there's not exalted Wigan Standard anymore just Super League Standard.
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AndyNick
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by AndyNick »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:57 am
AndyNick wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:08 am Protest all you like that we don't have whipping boys, but it's true. It happens season in season out. Certain players will cop a lot more stick than others. When Gelling first arrived he was one. There wasn't a game went by where someone didn't refer to Dan Sarginson as the turnstile despite the fact there were far worse tackle stats than his. Hankinson wasn't fit to burn whenever he played and now we've got people kicking off because we let him go on loan.
Every match someone will trot out the line "Not Wigan Standard" It was easy when we were the only professional team and there wasn't a salary cap. Now you've got to balance everything and form a competitive squad. He might not be a world beater but Sam Powell is a solid super league hooker and to get another hooker in who would make a noticeable difference would mean taking up a lot more cap space.
Every year we have a rough patch early on but come October we'll be there or thereabouts... Again.
Funny though isn’t is these “whipping” boys are never the best players and more often than not these high standard players who the fans are just mean about end up at much poorer teams after leaving

Has Farrell ever been the whipping boy? Or hasting? - no because they consistently perform - sarginson was a better fullback than centre but is at the right club now - gelling was always completely random never reliable fans don’t make that stuff up you chose to see it or not
When you've come through the academy and have the surname Farrell you get a lot more slack than an outsider signed from a side lower down. Farrell and Powell could both have a bad game, noone would say a word about Farrell and there would be a 26 page thread on here about how Powell "isn't Wigan standard" "is Wanes lovechild" "Should be shot for not being as good as James Roby"
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Wigan Warriors' off-contract players whose futures are unresolved

Post by EagleEyePie »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:53 am Play the best half back in the league at hooker? And move a youth player into a starting line up with an aging other half who was never the greatest half himself?

Jarrod Sammut - I mean really - come on he was never seriously going to be used in anything other than an emergency

French is as much of a 6 as hardaker is a prop - drench doesn’t want to play 6 never has and should never do

The fact is I’ve already said - Sam powell isn’t a bad player, so it would be pointless moving others round just to get him out the team but that’s not mine or others suggestion. The point we are making is bring in a proper hooker with more tools to improve the team all round - all you’ve suggested there is moving people out of position to cover 9 as some way of competition - that’s not competition - competition is having someone who plays your position available - that’s why I say the coach’s have had no other options that don’t weaken the squad elsewhere
I think I've just misunderstood your opinion of Powell then. I was under the impression you were suggesting Powell was only at 9 because there was no other option at all, but that he was also nowhere near good enough (even for those who coach him).

Although on the first point, I have a feeling playing Hastings at hooker was Lam's intention all along this year, only for injury to derail it. Not for the entire game of course, but probably for about 20-30 minutes during games (as Field or Smith came off the bench). His intention was also to play Bateman at 13 which hasn't happened yet due to injuries in the outside backs.

If we could sign a better hooker than Powell I wouldn't be disappointed if he left, but right now I think it would be just adding to our recruitment problems if the club let him go simply in the hope of finding someone new. Some have suggested Powell shouldn't be re-signed and players like Kyle Wood get touted as a replacement. Wood is another converted halfback as opposed to a natural hooker, but much weaker in defence, also not particularly direct and gets the same criticism from Wakefield fans that Powell gets from our fans and would be a considerable step down.

I do think the club should be looking at finding another viable option at 9 rather than getting rid of Powell. I think increased competition should bring out the best in Powell and whoever could compete for that role with him, but unfortunately this year our options have been limited by injury. Given the pessimism that many seem to have regarding the transfer market I doubt another 9 will be on Radlinski's list of priorities so the only hope of competition comes from O'Neill or Bourouh (if he's retained). I can envisage Bourouh leaving though and the club pinning their hopes on O'Neill long term (and to be fair he does look the better prospect).
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