In a nutshell.

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
nathan_rugby
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by nathan_rugby »

cherry toffee wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:08 pm Dan 2266 I think we all as fans appreciate your updates ,this one in particular has been very enlightening regarding the club's plans for the next few years,this is not meant as criticism towards you,far from it, but shouldn't it be the club who is keeping us informed? There seems to be a lack of trust bordering on contempt towards the fans on some occasions surely the fans would be more sympathetic towards any cut backs if they were treated as part of the club?
The club cannot keep is informed with the type of things Dan reports on.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
medlocke
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Re: In a nutshell.

Post by medlocke »

Dan2266 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:40 pm
medlocke wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:33 pm I'm currently sat in a Brewers Fayre in Catterick eating haddock and chips, have just read this complete shite and spat us
mushy peas all over the shop, our Sue ain't happy, happy days are not here again
What part of it do you think is shite? If Its something I have said I will then tell you why its not.
The attitude of the club, Nothing that you've said
Last edited by medlocke on Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dan2266
Posts: 1300
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by Dan2266 »

I probably post more than I should, But I get just as annoyed as you all with the goings on at the club. I like to share to gauge the feeling and thoughts of others.

If nothing changes its going to be a long 18 months following Wigan.

Those in charge are just so out of touch with the fans and the modern sport in general. It will take more than a half arsed badge to get the next generation on board.
DaveO
Posts: 15880
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by DaveO »

Caboosegg wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm
DaveO wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:52 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:08 pm I expected this, I'm surprised others didn't everyone has been hit by the pandemic and until fans are fully allowed back and the club can see what it's actual income is why would they do anything else.

I'd take this rather than in 3 years the club go bust because the can't afford to pay silly contracts.
That because you won't accept this is where the big wealthy owner comes in to fill the gap. An owner we do not have unlike at Wire.

The clubs income won't be raised dramatically by more fans returning because it's been true for years most of a clubs income comes from TV money and sponsorship. In Wire's case that sponsorship comes from the owner and his company.

The bottom line is (literally), IL is trying to run the club as a sustainable business and seems to have forgotten he owns a sports club which are the exact opposite of that (unless they are funded by external means such as a big TV deal as clubs in the NRL are).

If Dan is right then IL is not wealthy enough to see Wigan through the current situation while maintaining its position as a top club.

It's no use saying we can become one again as that assumes top players and coaches will want to join a club that has slipped down the pecking order. I think IL puts too much weight behind the Wigan name in terms of it's attraction. Even Mo Lindsay had to do a big sell to persuade John Monie to come here first time around but I have heard IL just thinks because it's Wigan people will come.
In your very Anti IL view, though you seem to forget that last time owners splashed the cash the club went bust.

IL told you when he took over that wouldn't happen again and the club had to be sustainable.
And in your very pro IL view you will defend IL running the club into the ground coming up with excuse after excuse like recruiting for a reserve side.

The club went bust for numerous reasons such as cost overrun on the new stand and spending money it had not got in the NRL/ARL war to keep players like Connolly. You are drawing a false equivalence between then and now because at no point have I suggested the club do the same and get into debt.

What I acknowledge and you won't is that if Wigan RL is run on sustainable basis it won't be a successful club. There is not currently enough revenue in the British game for that to be otherwise when other teams, notably Wire, are being funded to spend to the cap and we (according to Dan) are not.

IL clearly can't afford (or won't afford) the funds to meet the gap in revenue between now and the projected date of this spending spree on the squad Dan mentioned.

If what Dan says is correct this must be the first time in the clubs modern history it has planned to be mediocre.
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lucky 13
Posts: 2266
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by lucky 13 »

Just to throw this out there. Is this not just a rumour? Now I look forward to rumour posts and in no way I'm having a go, the first place I look when I come on here is the rumour thread, the guys with the inside track or a mate of a mate stories, I take them as what they are some come off some don't. I'm sure a little truth lies within almost all. Over a week ago I mentioned that the press was seemingly swaying to Williams ending up at Wire. I was pleased that we was still seemingly in the hunt and while not thinking this was a done deal I think the fact we was head to head with Wire makes this latest thread a little more rumour based.
I imagine if the rumours re Davies, Tomkins, Thompson being contacted are correct then that would also mean they are contradictory?
Obviously peanuts would not be on offer?
I also seem to remember the club saying next season was a big year with it being 150th anniversary.... would seem a funny time to suddenly decide to become a mid table outfit?
If we believe the Budge rumour this deal was signed weeks ago (if not on paper) Also another rumour it was said he was Wire bound almost from the off by a member of his family would seem to back that up.
The budge rumour also said this was not just a money move but a choice not to come back here
"a new challenge".
Before we make our minds up on the direction the clubs taking I think its reasonable to think that several things may have been at play with us maybe not ending up with George coming back. Obviously claims that he will be the top paid player in SL may be one reason on several fronts. For me he's not worth that and maybe the club agree. The lads(mates group) who came through together , on more than a few occasions I have been told have caused the club a few headaches. All wanted to go to Aus Budge went early and from recent remarks would not have come back if he had gone to Souths from the off. Two spoke to our nearest rivals to get bigger contracts, Williams with Wire previously, its why he ended up marquee. Several other incidents have also not ended well off the field enough said.
The club may have taken all this into what they offered or maybe they was not that bothered? I was also told that a few rumblings from some players re the contract at Wire being offered banded about and the players taking pay cuts last year was taken into account.....obvious this is all rumour but feasible.
If you look at this years team Bateman back, Hastings staying, French along with Field and the young lads signed up all does not point to any plan to cut back. Again maybe I'm drinking from a glass half full but we have been run to full cap and while times are tough I still imagine that will be the case I don't understand why Danson would have come on board if not to add some security and his money makes running any rugby club like a small hobby.
The two signings of Thornley and Mason while not inspiring should add more to the squad than if not at least the same as Clark Clubb and Hank.
Again from what I'm told Bullock was not offered a deal though personally I never thought we got the best from him because of a lack of any yards from our other props.
Guess we will see how this pans out. To the ones who post the rumours please keep it up I really enjoy them and at other times despair it's all part of debate and what a forum and supporting a teams about.
02/04/2010/
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HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Caboosegg
Posts: 3837
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by Caboosegg »

DaveO wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:17 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm
DaveO wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:52 pm

That because you won't accept this is where the big wealthy owner comes in to fill the gap. An owner we do not have unlike at Wire.

The clubs income won't be raised dramatically by more fans returning because it's been true for years most of a clubs income comes from TV money and sponsorship. In Wire's case that sponsorship comes from the owner and his company.

The bottom line is (literally), IL is trying to run the club as a sustainable business and seems to have forgotten he owns a sports club which are the exact opposite of that (unless they are funded by external means such as a big TV deal as clubs in the NRL are).

If Dan is right then IL is not wealthy enough to see Wigan through the current situation while maintaining its position as a top club.

It's no use saying we can become one again as that assumes top players and coaches will want to join a club that has slipped down the pecking order. I think IL puts too much weight behind the Wigan name in terms of it's attraction. Even Mo Lindsay had to do a big sell to persuade John Monie to come here first time around but I have heard IL just thinks because it's Wigan people will come.
In your very Anti IL view, though you seem to forget that last time owners splashed the cash the club went bust.

IL told you when he took over that wouldn't happen again and the club had to be sustainable.
And in your very pro IL view you will defend IL running the club into the ground coming up with excuse after excuse like recruiting for a reserve side.

The club went bust for numerous reasons such as cost overrun on the new stand and spending money it had not got in the NRL/ARL war to keep players like Connolly. You are drawing a false equivalence between then and now because at no point have I suggested the club do the same and get into debt.

What I acknowledge and you won't is that if Wigan RL is run on sustainable basis it won't be a successful club. There is not currently enough revenue in the British game for that to be otherwise when other teams, notably Wire, are being funded to spend to the cap and we (according to Dan) are not.

IL clearly can't afford (or won't afford) the funds to meet the gap in revenue between now and the projected date of this spending spree on the squad Dan mentioned.

If what Dan says is correct this must be the first time in the clubs modern history it has planned to be mediocre.
Amazing DaveO I am not massively PRO IL and I haven't commented about the recruits being for reserve only I will judge the recruitment when done.

I however must have imagined the last 10 years from the highlighted part though as IL has alway said he is going to make the club sustainable, it isn't a new theme. We seem to have done alright.

Then again I wasn't around during golden years so I don't have those fabled times to compare it to.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
Dan2266
Posts: 1300
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by Dan2266 »

medlocke wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:24 pm
Dan2266 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:40 pm
medlocke wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:33 pm I'm currently sat in a Brewers Fayre in Catterick eating haddock and chips, have just read this complete shite and spat us
mushy peas all over the shop, our Sue ain't happy, happy days are not here again
What part of it do you think is shite? If Its something I have said I will then tell you why its not.
The attitude of the club, Nothing that you've said
Fair enough, was going to say Im, just a messenger really :lol: :lol:
Dan2266
Posts: 1300
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by Dan2266 »

DaveO wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:17 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm
DaveO wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:52 pm

That because you won't accept this is where the big wealthy owner comes in to fill the gap. An owner we do not have unlike at Wire.

The clubs income won't be raised dramatically by more fans returning because it's been true for years most of a clubs income comes from TV money and sponsorship. In Wire's case that sponsorship comes from the owner and his company.

The bottom line is (literally), IL is trying to run the club as a sustainable business and seems to have forgotten he owns a sports club which are the exact opposite of that (unless they are funded by external means such as a big TV deal as clubs in the NRL are).

If Dan is right then IL is not wealthy enough to see Wigan through the current situation while maintaining its position as a top club.

It's no use saying we can become one again as that assumes top players and coaches will want to join a club that has slipped down the pecking order. I think IL puts too much weight behind the Wigan name in terms of it's attraction. Even Mo Lindsay had to do a big sell to persuade John Monie to come here first time around but I have heard IL just thinks because it's Wigan people will come.
In your very Anti IL view, though you seem to forget that last time owners splashed the cash the club went bust.

IL told you when he took over that wouldn't happen again and the club had to be sustainable.
And in your very pro IL view you will defend IL running the club into the ground coming up with excuse after excuse like recruiting for a reserve side.

The club went bust for numerous reasons such as cost overrun on the new stand and spending money it had not got in the NRL/ARL war to keep players like Connolly. You are drawing a false equivalence between then and now because at no point have I suggested the club do the same and get into debt.

What I acknowledge and you won't is that if Wigan RL is run on sustainable basis it won't be a successful club. There is not currently enough revenue in the British game for that to be otherwise when other teams, notably Wire, are being funded to spend to the cap and we (according to Dan) are not.

IL clearly can't afford (or won't afford) the funds to meet the gap in revenue between now and the projected date of this spending spree on the squad Dan mentioned.

If what Dan says is correct this must be the first time in the clubs modern history it has planned to be mediocre.

I genuinely think its more a case of a reset. Than it is “not affording” think about it.

This is a good a time as ever to do it. The turnover of players retiring/moving abroad, it gets historically high wages off the cap. Most of those wages are compensated by the “home grown” rule, I think we will see the outline of a squad assembled over the couple of years or so to compete on all fronts and reserve grade. then the final 4 or 5 additions will be carefully selected for the areas we need them most. And thats where our investment will come. The players on the Marquee money or higher wages being added to a “average” squad that are on short term contracts and are given next season to prove themselves. If they don't prove them selves you still have the start of the 2023 season to replace them.

I cant flat out come out and say what I know word for word because that will specifically land a couple of people in trouble. But I can give you 2 + 2 and you can get to 4.

Reset the structure whilst the turnover of players is at its highest

The plan the club have is a good one. But my confidence in those tasked with executing it is not high.

As always though. We could get to the end of this season and the clubs thinking may change.

Everything I have mentioned on this thread is all subject to revenue, Covid, Coaching appointments. So we may well see a reversal of the plans. But as it stands, what I have said today is the way the club are thinking.

The one thing that will not change is the fact we are ran as a kind of retail business rather than a sports club. Which on some fronts is great. But on others not so great.

We are running at a loss so instead of funding the losses out of their personal wealth or further investment from external parties we are trying to cut costs to bring the club as close to self sustainable as possible before the reset gets into swing.

That way, when the owners need to dip into their pockets it is to add to the playing squad only. Not cover losses and then add to the playing squad.

Business wise it makes sense, but its not what you want to see, we will undoubtedly fall behind the top 3/4 teams in the meantime. But the long term plan for the clubs sake if it works will be admirable and the foundations to build on for many many years.

I personally believe this is the beginning of the IL wind down.

Im saying no more. Sorry for the long messages.
fozzieskem
Posts: 6494
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by fozzieskem »

Dan2266 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:05 am
DaveO wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:17 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm

In your very Anti IL view, though you seem to forget that last time owners splashed the cash the club went bust.

IL told you when he took over that wouldn't happen again and the club had to be sustainable.
And in your very pro IL view you will defend IL running the club into the ground coming up with excuse after excuse like recruiting for a reserve side.

The club went bust for numerous reasons such as cost overrun on the new stand and spending money it had not got in the NRL/ARL war to keep players like Connolly. You are drawing a false equivalence between then and now because at no point have I suggested the club do the same and get into debt.

What I acknowledge and you won't is that if Wigan RL is run on sustainable basis it won't be a successful club. There is not currently enough revenue in the British game for that to be otherwise when other teams, notably Wire, are being funded to spend to the cap and we (according to Dan) are not.

IL clearly can't afford (or won't afford) the funds to meet the gap in revenue between now and the projected date of this spending spree on the squad Dan mentioned.

If what Dan says is correct this must be the first time in the clubs modern history it has planned to be mediocre.

I genuinely think its more a case of a reset. Than it is “not affording” think about it.

This is a good a time as ever to do it. The turnover of players retiring/moving abroad, it gets historically high wages off the cap. Most of those wages are compensated by the “home grown” rule, I think we will see the outline of a squad assembled over the couple of years or so to compete on all fronts and reserve grade. then the final 4 or 5 additions will be carefully selected for the areas we need them most. And thats where our investment will come. The players on the Marquee money or higher wages being added to a “average” squad that are on short term contracts and are given next season to prove themselves. If they don't prove them selves you still have the start of the 2023 season to replace them.

I cant flat out come out and say what I know word for word because that will specifically land a couple of people in trouble. But I can give you 2 + 2 and you can get to 4.

Reset the structure whilst the turnover of players is at its highest

The plan the club have is a good one. But my confidence in those tasked with executing it is not high.

As always though. We could get to the end of this season and the clubs thinking may change.

Everything I have mentioned on this thread is all subject to revenue, Covid, Coaching appointments. So we may well see a reversal of the plans. But as it stands, what I have said today is the way the club are thinking.

The one thing that will not change is the fact we are ran as a kind of retail business rather than a sports club. Which on some fronts is great. But on others not so great.

We are running at a loss so instead of funding the losses out of their personal wealth or further investment from external parties we are trying to cut costs to bring the club as close to self sustainable as possible before the reset gets into swing.

That way, when the owners need to dip into their pockets it is to add to the playing squad only. Not cover losses and then add to the playing squad.

Business wise it makes sense, but its not what you want to see, we will undoubtedly fall behind the top 3/4 teams in the meantime. But the long term plan for the clubs sake if it works will be admirable and the foundations to build on for many many years.

I personally believe this is the beginning of the IL wind down.

Im saying no more. Sorry for the long messages.
The highlighted part is the interesting one and I think you may be on to something there
nathan_rugby
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: In a nutshell.

Post by nathan_rugby »

If the club have this plan of a reset and big push from 2023, why have we been linked with Williams, Tomkins, Thompson etc?

If the plans Dan posts about are true, my worry is our ability to actually execute on them and deliver. We seemingly have missed out on all our recent targets for some reason so why won’t the same continue to happen.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
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