JUST TELL US IL

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Exiled Wiganer
Posts: 2677
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:18 pm

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by Exiled Wiganer »

I would be very happy for IL to come out and tell us what his plans are, but I am not clear when would be the best time to do so. There seems to be an assumption that we have finished our recruitment for next year - I don’t see how that can be so.
We always hear who is leaving before we hear who is arriving, so wouldn’t it make sense to wait until they have announced who will be here next year before getting so anxious? I for one like the decision to tie down Smithies, Smith, Havard, Shorrocks etc, as I think they have real potential. I am really excited by this squad’s potential, as long as we get at least one more big bruiser to lead the pack, and another classy back - either in the halves, full back or the centre, as Field may well be a superb 6, Smith will only get better, and Hardaker is good at either centre or full back...
I have never understood how we as a club have uniquely decided that having big forwards who make ground is a bad thing, and hope and pray that someone wakes up and does something about it. DOn’t they teach physics in Wigan?
Dan2266
Posts: 1300
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by Dan2266 »

Exiled Wiganer wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:23 pm I would be very happy for IL to come out and tell us what his plans are, but I am not clear when would be the best time to do so. There seems to be an assumption that we have finished our recruitment for next year - I don’t see how that can be so.
We always hear who is leaving before we hear who is arriving, so wouldn’t it make sense to wait until they have announced who will be here next year before getting so anxious? I for one like the decision to tie down Smithies, Smith, Havard, Shorrocks etc, as I think they have real potential. I am really excited by this squad’s potential, as long as we get at least one more big bruiser to lead the pack, and another classy back - either in the halves, full back or the centre, as Field may well be a superb 6, Smith will only get better, and Hardaker is good at either centre or full back...
I have never understood how we as a club have uniquely decided that having big forwards who make ground is a bad thing, and hope and pray that someone wakes up and does something about it. DOn’t they teach physics in Wigan?
Recruitment is far from over, It just depends who we can agree deals with. As I said my worry is we are losing out on average players to other clubs (Mainly Lawler & Mulhern) so what calibre of player can we attract? and what type of wages are we offering? that's the concerning part. Are these boys from Leigh the best we can attract? or are we getting the easy deals out the way first.
the pieman
Posts: 1310
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by the pieman »

bloody hell

have lost a game or two?

the posts on this forum at time are depressing

yes, the quality at the minute hasnt been there, and we arent signing the harlem globetrotters of RL for next season, but we are able to get back in and watch games, and there is likely to be a tightening of the purse strings (take a look around at what is going on in the world). We havent played the same backline due to injuries and shuffling around for back to back games this season that i can recall, so that is going to lead to inconsistency (yes, Lam could be blamed for some of the changes)

Re the club going forward, i am pretty sure that most of us will have experienced issues with our workplaces over the last 18 months. I am fortunate that i still have a job, but it is unlikely that i will return to the office that i have worked in for over 20 years as companies are cutting costs, so it will be a combination of WFH and posss a couple of days in a local office. Whilst we may argue that sports clubs are different, in todays world, they are more of a business than the traditional sports club. IL etc are looking to manage the club sustainably, and not keep bank rolling year on year, so if the cloth has to be cut, then it will happen. we may not like it, but it will be better than potentially not having a club in a few years time. Saints and Wire as already mentioned are going to lose players also. Saints dont rely solely on Mcmanus as he has brought on board other wealthy business people to share the burden. not so sure about Moran as he seems happy to bank roll them but i could be wrong
fozzieskem
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by fozzieskem »

Caboosegg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:16 pm
01tentpeg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:33 pm how come the other super league teams dont seem to have the problems that wigan have how do warrington afford all these players they have it will take a very very long time before this team gets back to being a good super league team we are becoming a very average side we dont need a ground that size any more at this moment in time the club are driving fans away not at attracting them from a unhappy supporter
Wire have posted massive losses and we don't know how many are leaving, they are bringing in mainly cas players none of those are world beaters but play well under powells style.

Stains have salary cap issues and are expected to lose some quality players.

Have Leeds announced any big name signings.

Everywhere is the same to a greater or lesser extent. Our issues currently come from squad inbalance.

Why buy field when you have French and Hastings at the time etc. Yes we might need him next season but we needed a prop this season more urgently.
No one knows how good/bad Field is(and I count the coach in that too)so he can’t have cost that much in wages surely?but yes plenty of other positions needed filling before they signed him
Wintergreen
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by Wintergreen »

NICKYKISS wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:06 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:44 pm
NICKYKISS wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:37 pm Cutting the size and quality of the squad won’t save much money as it will then have a knock on effect in ticket sales. I’d like to know after all the years of being told the club is losing lots of money, what is actually being done in a positive manner to change that?

Making staff redundant and drastically cutting squad depth and quality should be a last resort, as it is so visible to the fans that they then lose heart. If you also cut your staff back to a bare minimum, you’ll find it really tough to put strategies in place to turn the business around, as the staff you have left won’t have the time, the support or the energy to do anything other than chase their tails and will likely be totally disheartened themselves.

The whole place feels devoid of energy at the moment. COVID hasn’t helped but we don’t even communicate positive stories half the time now. I think the fans feel a bit under valued in a lot of ways.
Even when we didn't cut the quality of the squad attendance has gone down, the RFL has done nothing to grow the game and then stupid rules around advertisement earnings prevent players becoming known faces and further boosting the sports profile.

It's a joke and until something changes around the cap we will see reducing numbers anyway.
I do feel sorry for Lenagan in that when he did decide to go down the route of speculating to accumulate by bringing in exciting players in the form of French, Hastings and Burgess, one was an injury dud and then covid hit. It’s been a perfect storm really and I fear we’re really going to face a hit because if it now. It’s a shame if it is the case because whilst crowds may not fly up on the back of big signings (but due to Covid we never got to find out), you won’t take anymore damage and if people see Hastings, Gildart, French etc leave and Mason, Thornley and Miski style signings come in, we will see a huge hit in attendances. The only way around that is as people have said on here and that is the club needing to plead poverty and plead for patience and backing to support it.
Anyone who thinks investing in a RL team is a way to "accumulate" is deluded (at least with the flat cap and whippet brigade running the show at the moment). I am sure IL is not deluded.

In the short to medium term the owner of the club has three choices:

1. Bail out the club financially
2. Reduce the wage bill (and by extension the quality of the squad).
3. Both.

Wigan is arguably the biggest club in RL. Certainly the biggest in England. Imo there will be no shortage of people who would quite happily opt for 1. above.

Although IL has clearly bailed out the club in the past, does he have the appetite to do it going forward?

Recent events suggest not.
the pieman
Posts: 1310
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by the pieman »

Wintergreen wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:49 pm
NICKYKISS wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:06 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:44 pm

Even when we didn't cut the quality of the squad attendance has gone down, the RFL has done nothing to grow the game and then stupid rules around advertisement earnings prevent players becoming known faces and further boosting the sports profile.

It's a joke and until something changes around the cap we will see reducing numbers anyway.
I do feel sorry for Lenagan in that when he did decide to go down the route of speculating to accumulate by bringing in exciting players in the form of French, Hastings and Burgess, one was an injury dud and then covid hit. It’s been a perfect storm really and I fear we’re really going to face a hit because if it now. It’s a shame if it is the case because whilst crowds may not fly up on the back of big signings (but due to Covid we never got to find out), you won’t take anymore damage and if people see Hastings, Gildart, French etc leave and Mason, Thornley and Miski style signings come in, we will see a huge hit in attendances. The only way around that is as people have said on here and that is the club needing to plead poverty and plead for patience and backing to support it.
Anyone who thinks investing in a RL team is a way to "accumulate" is deluded (at least with the flat cap and whippet brigade running the show at the moment). I am sure IL is not deluded.

In the short to medium term the owner of the club has three choices:

1. Bail out the club financially
2. Reduce the wage bill (and by extension the quality of the squad).
3. Both.

Wigan is arguably the biggest club in RL. Certainly the biggest in England. Imo there will be no shortage of people who would quite happily opt for 1. above.

Although IL has clearly bailed out the club in the past, does he have the appetite to do it going forward?

Recent events suggest not.
i think the highlighted bit would depend on what each person means by accumulate. I think the majority will know that as an owner of a RL club you aint going to make millions but if that accumulate was to increase the gate by 10% then we have a completely different meaning and something positive that could be measured, albeit Covid has chucked a right spanner in if that was a genuine measure that the club was looking at. So what i am saying is that the speculate to accumulate may not necessarily mean make millions, there could be other success measures
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NICKYKISS
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:06 am

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by NICKYKISS »

Wintergreen wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:49 pm
NICKYKISS wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:06 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:44 pm

Even when we didn't cut the quality of the squad attendance has gone down, the RFL has done nothing to grow the game and then stupid rules around advertisement earnings prevent players becoming known faces and further boosting the sports profile.

It's a joke and until something changes around the cap we will see reducing numbers anyway.
I do feel sorry for Lenagan in that when he did decide to go down the route of speculating to accumulate by bringing in exciting players in the form of French, Hastings and Burgess, one was an injury dud and then covid hit. It’s been a perfect storm really and I fear we’re really going to face a hit because if it now. It’s a shame if it is the case because whilst crowds may not fly up on the back of big signings (but due to Covid we never got to find out), you won’t take anymore damage and if people see Hastings, Gildart, French etc leave and Mason, Thornley and Miski style signings come in, we will see a huge hit in attendances. The only way around that is as people have said on here and that is the club needing to plead poverty and plead for patience and backing to support it.
Anyone who thinks investing in a RL team is a way to "accumulate" is deluded (at least with the flat cap and whippet brigade running the show at the moment). I am sure IL is not deluded.

In the short to medium term the owner of the club has three choices:

1. Bail out the club financially
2. Reduce the wage bill (and by extension the quality of the squad).
3. Both.

Wigan is arguably the biggest club in RL. Certainly the biggest in England. Imo there will be no shortage of people who would quite happily opt for 1. above.

Although IL has clearly bailed out the club in the past, does he have the appetite to do it going forward?

Recent events suggest not.
Clearly I didn’t mean he’d be financially accumulating, I’m not backwards :lol:

I meant he was speculating financially to try and accumulate on field success. In any sport in the world it’s extremely rare to see people in ownership make money. There’s the odd exception like the parasites at Manchester United but they’re few and far between. They’re non existent in a sport like this.
DaveO
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by DaveO »

Caboosegg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:32 pm People can chuck the blame at the management all they want but our issue vs Hull KR was pure coaching. I have never seen a team spend so much time as we did in the opponents 20 on Friday and not post points.
It was pure bad coaching compounded by the fact after all that time spent in their 20 and not getting through he didn't change a thing at half time. I fully expected to see Hastings at least play 7 when we had the ball even if he reverted to FB when we didn't. But no....
fozzieskem
Posts: 6494
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: JUST TELL US IL

Post by fozzieskem »

DaveO wrote:
Caboosegg wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:32 pm People can chuck the blame at the management all they want but our issue vs Hull KR was pure coaching. I have never seen a team spend so much time as we did in the opponents 20 on Friday and not post points.
It was pure bad coaching compounded by the fact after all that time spent in their 20 and not getting through he didn't change a thing at half time. I fully expected to see Hastings at least play 7 when we had the ball even if he reverted to FB when we didn't. But no....
The one thing that shocked me that perhaps doesn’t come over on the tv was how poor the side was,it was like players who spend time together had just met,utterly clueless in attack and defence that takes some doing..


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