Fans Forum

[Southern Softy]

I know they're only rumours but we need a consistent half-back and that certainly isn't Lino. Miller usually plays well against us (I know that's not a good guide at the moment) but he has matches where he just disappears and that's no good to us.
For all the banging on about big props and I know we need them for some go-forward, the winning of a game will be dictated primarily by the quality of the halves followed by the hooker with the full-back coming into the line from time to time.
Happy with Zak as FB - we need a hooker with the ability to make holes down the middle with sniping runs and Harry Smith can beat a man in the tackle but we need that other half to generate tries.

[Charriots Offiah]

If you look at Saints players that are leaving this year, you can start to see the compromises they are begining to have to make. It just hit us a few years earlier.

What Do you mean Mike? They have got two of the best young players in the comp. Thompson leaves they sign another who, in my opinion is better. They lose a fullback and sign Hopoate. By the way both players are younger than their predecessors. Have they finished recruiting?

They lost fage too.

They did but Dodds will become a much better player.

[Charriots Offiah]

I wonder with clubs like saints and wire signing big name players (probably more wire than saints) and probably big name salaries to go with them
Will this not come back and bite them on the arse as it did with Bradford and Widnes a few years back and the game was in what could be said a more comfortable position than it is now

At the moment Saints are getting it right, Wigan are not. My philosophy is don’t put off until tomorrow what you can do today as tomorrow may never come.

Probably comes down to how many young players we have in our squad on first team contracts which not only creates an imbalance but reduces the opportunity to sign more established players.

Imo having Havard, Byrne, Smithies, Partington, KPP is too many youngsters at the same time.

Havard still has great potential but stalled this year.

Partington and Smithies, I hope they can improve but feel they’re the same players they were a few years ago.

Byrne has great aggression but makes so many mistakes and runs into brick walls rather than gaps

KPP could be our next Gareth Hock, great running outwide, good offload. Would like to see more aggression, not always look for offload and to do more runs in our own half.

Partington is actually 23 now, no longer a youngster in comparison.

I agree with you. The problem is that IFL and Rads have not planned accordingly, the young lads need better support than they are getting from the likes of Clubb, Bullock and Clark. The club is too insular and the management need to adopt a ruthless approach. Saints could have paid some of their departing players more money but they didn’t they went and signed players who they think will bring better value to the team. We need to learn a lesson from them.

[Charriots Offiah]

Reading the notes from the Forum, looks like they partly revealed the Hardaker conversations I was on about. (and got slated for)

Plus Thornley
Plus broadly what you said about Williams

People don't realise how close we actually were to Williams, Warringtons final offer swayed it. But Wigan wont come out and say that because of the way it portrays him

To be fair someone else was first with the Thornely situation, not quite sure who it was

It is only a fraction more that Wire are paying him than what Wigan offered. The downside of not recruiting George is that we have less money available to spend under the cap. Rads has stated that following the recruitment of a half back we will have approximately £75k, that figure would have risen to £150k which would have enabled us to recruit another very good player. By the way don’t rule Tommy out of going round again next season.

[CheshireWarrior]

Don't see how our youthful forwards can rely on support from Clark, Bullock or Clubb when there's no consistency in appearances, either overlooked (rightly or wrongly) or over the hill!

[nathan_rugby]

I know they're only rumours but we need a consistent half-back and that certainly isn't Lino. Miller usually plays well against us (I know that's not a good guide at the moment) but he has matches where he just disappears and that's no good to us.
For all the banging on about big props and I know we need them for some go-forward, the winning of a game will be dictated primarily by the quality of the halves followed by the hooker with the full-back coming into the line from time to time.
Happy with Zak as FB - we need a hooker with the ability to make holes down the middle with sniping runs and Harry Smith can beat a man in the tackle but we need that other half to generate tries.

I completely disagree that the winning of the game is dictated primarily by the quality of the halves.

We did well with Smith and Green and nobody would have ever had them down as some of the best halves in super league.

[Southern Softy]

Well, I think Green was and Marry Smith has always been underrated but the point is that they were both consistent and we scored tries from their prompting. They weren't solely responsible but they didn't half help.

[widdenoldboy]

At the moment Saints are getting it right, Wigan are not. My philosophy is don’t put off until tomorrow what you can do today as tomorrow may never come.

Probably comes down to how many young players we have in our squad on first team contracts which not only creates an imbalance but reduces the opportunity to sign more established players.

Imo having Havard, Byrne, Smithies, Partington, KPP is too many youngsters at the same time.

Havard still has great potential but stalled this year.

Partington and Smithies, I hope they can improve but feel they’re the same players they were a few years ago.

Byrne has great aggression but makes so many mistakes and runs into brick walls rather than gaps

KPP could be our next Gareth Hock, great running outwide, good offload. Would like to see more aggression, not always look for offload and to do more runs in our own half.

Partington is actually 23 now, no longer a youngster in comparison.

I agree with you. The problem is that IFL and Rads have not planned accordingly, the young lads need better support than they are getting from the likes of Clubb, Bullock and Clark. The club is too insular and the management need to adopt a ruthless approach. Saints could have paid some of their departing players more money but they didn’t they went and signed players who they think will bring better value to the team. We need to learn a lesson from them.

Agree with that 100%, we need to look how they are bringing on good young prospects into class players - Lees, Dodd, Grace, Knowles, Welsby.

We are not quite there in recent years with Hampshire, Smith, Smithies, Partington, Byrne and even Williams to some extent.

[buttmonkey2]

Agree with that 100%, we need to look how they are bringing on good young prospects into class players - Lees, Dodd, Grace, Knowles, Welsby.

We are not quite there in recent years with Hampshire, Smith, Smithies, Partington, Byrne and even Williams to some extent.

Saints coaches - Brown, Cunningham, Holbrook and Woolf
during the same time
Wigan's coaches - Wane, Lam

My thoughts are that Wane brought plenty of juniors through but wasn't great at developing them into the quality that they should have turned into. Ditto Lam - although probably worse if you look how many appear to have gone backwards lately.

I think that answers you

[DaveO]

At the moment Saints are getting it right, Wigan are not. My philosophy is don’t put off until tomorrow what you can do today as tomorrow may never come.

Probably comes down to how many young players we have in our squad on first team contracts which not only creates an imbalance but reduces the opportunity to sign more established players.

Imo having Havard, Byrne, Smithies, Partington, KPP is too many youngsters at the same time.

Havard still has great potential but stalled this year.

Partington and Smithies, I hope they can improve but feel they’re the same players they were a few years ago.

Byrne has great aggression but makes so many mistakes and runs into brick walls rather than gaps

KPP could be our next Gareth Hock, great running outwide, good offload. Would like to see more aggression, not always look for offload and to do more runs in our own half.

Partington is actually 23 now, no longer a youngster in comparison.

I agree with you. The problem is that IFL and Rads have not planned accordingly, the young lads need better support than they are getting from the likes of Clubb, Bullock and Clark. The club is too insular and the management need to adopt a ruthless approach. Saints could have paid some of their departing players more money but they didn’t they went and signed players who they think will bring better value to the team. We need to learn a lesson from them.

It's not just better support for these young players but how much they are getting paid. Rads said in the forum they pay them the market rate. I suspect this translates into a pretty big pay rise and they all get it.

Rads made no secret as while back he likes how Leeds have salary bands based on experience and so on. I would not be surprised if all those younger players were given the same salary and that the "market rate" is a pretty hefty one.

This would help explain why the club is going to be paying to the full cap of £2.1m we still end up with the squad having holes in it. We will have ONE specialist centre next year and that is Thornely!

It sounds like our half back will be a downgrade from Hastings and the club is also hoping (but doesn't know) that Field can play 6.

If I am correct about the young players wages then I think this is the wrong approach. If they want to offer some a contract it should be based on what the club thinks they are worth and if that isn't as much as the players want, let them leave. So currently KPP would get a big offer and Partington not do. I suspect all the young players currently on 1st team contracts are on too high a wage and this is stopping the club spending elsewhere.

Well that's my theory but if I am wrong we need another explanation as to why this years and next years squad is costing £2.1m in wages because it's not worth it.