Probably comes down to how many young players we have in our squad on first team contracts which not only creates an imbalance but reduces the opportunity to sign more established players.
Imo having Havard, Byrne, Smithies, Partington, KPP is too many youngsters at the same time.
Havard still has great potential but stalled this year.
Partington and Smithies, I hope they can improve but feel they’re the same players they were a few years ago.
Byrne has great aggression but makes so many mistakes and runs into brick walls rather than gaps
KPP could be our next Gareth Hock, great running outwide, good offload. Would like to see more aggression, not always look for offload and to do more runs in our own half.
Partington is actually 23 now, no longer a youngster in comparison.
I agree with you. The problem is that IFL and Rads have not planned accordingly, the young lads need better support than they are getting from the likes of Clubb, Bullock and Clark. The club is too insular and the management need to adopt a ruthless approach. Saints could have paid some of their departing players more money but they didn’t they went and signed players who they think will bring better value to the team. We need to learn a lesson from them.
It's not just better support for these young players but how much they are getting paid. Rads said in the forum they pay them the market rate. I suspect this translates into a pretty big pay rise and they all get it.
Rads made no secret as while back he likes how Leeds have salary bands based on experience and so on. I would not be surprised if all those younger players were given the same salary and that the "market rate" is a pretty hefty one.
This would help explain why the club is going to be paying to the full cap of £2.1m we still end up with the squad having holes in it. We will have ONE specialist centre next year and that is Thornely!
It sounds like our half back will be a downgrade from Hastings and the club is also hoping (but doesn't know) that Field can play 6.
If I am correct about the young players wages then I think this is the wrong approach. If they want to offer some a contract it should be based on what the club thinks they are worth and if that isn't as much as the players want, let them leave. So currently KPP would get a big offer and Partington not do. I suspect all the young players currently on 1st team contracts are on too high a wage and this is stopping the club spending elsewhere.
Well that's my theory but if I am wrong we need another explanation as to why this years and next years squad is costing £2.1m in wages because it's not worth it.
Don’t think you’re far wrong Dave,we can’t keep having such an unbalanced squad as Wigan have at present,time to grasp the nettle and admit they are simply paying some these kids to much,don’t like fine let them leave trying to spread the cap to thin has left holes and it’ll be another poor season in store.
As for Field did anyone see him play at all because it’s clear they don’t know what to do with him
What Do you mean Mike? They have got two of the best young players in the comp. Thompson leaves they sign another who, in my opinion is better. They lose a fullback and sign Hopoate. By the way both players are younger than their predecessors. Have they finished recruiting?
They lost fage too.
They did but Dodds will become a much better player.
So promoting youth then, rather than being able to retain a player they definitely wanted to retain.
widdenoldboy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:30 pm
Agree with that 100%, we need to look how they are bringing on good young prospects into class players - Lees, Dodd, Grace, Knowles, Welsby.
We are not quite there in recent years with Hampshire, Smith, Smithies, Partington, Byrne and even Williams to some extent.
Saints coaches - Brown, Cunningham, Holbrook and Woolf
during the same time
Wigan's coaches - Wane, Lam
My thoughts are that Wane brought plenty of juniors through but wasn't great at developing them into the quality that they should have turned into. Ditto Lam - although probably worse if you look how many appear to have gone backwards lately.
I think that answers you
Wane bought and developed players in his own image. Small props/ 2nd rowers basically. We had tonnes of those and still do.
I agree with you. The problem is that IFL and Rads have not planned accordingly, the young lads need better support than they are getting from the likes of Clubb, Bullock and Clark. The club is too insular and the management need to adopt a ruthless approach. Saints could have paid some of their departing players more money but they didn’t they went and signed players who they think will bring better value to the team. We need to learn a lesson from them.
It's not just better support for these young players but how much they are getting paid. Rads said in the forum they pay them the market rate. I suspect this translates into a pretty big pay rise and they all get it.
Rads made no secret as while back he likes how Leeds have salary bands based on experience and so on. I would not be surprised if all those younger players were given the same salary and that the "market rate" is a pretty hefty one.
This would help explain why the club is going to be paying to the full cap of £2.1m we still end up with the squad having holes in it. We will have ONE specialist centre next year and that is Thornely!
It sounds like our half back will be a downgrade from Hastings and the club is also hoping (but doesn't know) that Field can play 6.
If I am correct about the young players wages then I think this is the wrong approach. If they want to offer some a contract it should be based on what the club thinks they are worth and if that isn't as much as the players want, let them leave. So currently KPP would get a big offer and Partington not do. I suspect all the young players currently on 1st team contracts are on too high a wage and this is stopping the club spending elsewhere.
Well that's my theory but if I am wrong we need another explanation as to why this years and next years squad is costing £2.1m in wages because it's not worth it.
Don’t think you’re far wrong Dave,we can’t keep having such an unbalanced squad as Wigan have at present,time to grasp the nettle and admit they are simply paying some these kids to much,don’t like fine let them leave trying to spread the cap to thin has left holes and it’ll be another poor season in store.
As for Field did anyone see him play at all because it’s clear they don’t know what to do with him
Seems to me we've kept too many players with the same sort of attributes. Do we need smithies, partington, shorrocks, Burne and havard? I'd say unfortunately no. If we release one or two there will be an outcry because they are all decent, but they offer similar things to one another and to higher paid seniors.
It's not just better support for these young players but how much they are getting paid. Rads said in the forum they pay them the market rate. I suspect this translates into a pretty big pay rise and they all get it.
Rads made no secret as while back he likes how Leeds have salary bands based on experience and so on. I would not be surprised if all those younger players were given the same salary and that the "market rate" is a pretty hefty one.
This would help explain why the club is going to be paying to the full cap of £2.1m we still end up with the squad having holes in it. We will have ONE specialist centre next year and that is Thornely!
It sounds like our half back will be a downgrade from Hastings and the club is also hoping (but doesn't know) that Field can play 6.
If I am correct about the young players wages then I think this is the wrong approach. If they want to offer some a contract it should be based on what the club thinks they are worth and if that isn't as much as the players want, let them leave. So currently KPP would get a big offer and Partington not do. I suspect all the young players currently on 1st team contracts are on too high a wage and this is stopping the club spending elsewhere.
Well that's my theory but if I am wrong we need another explanation as to why this years and next years squad is costing £2.1m in wages because it's not worth it.
Don’t think you’re far wrong Dave,we can’t keep having such an unbalanced squad as Wigan have at present,time to grasp the nettle and admit they are simply paying some these kids to much,don’t like fine let them leave trying to spread the cap to thin has left holes and it’ll be another poor season in store.
As for Field did anyone see him play at all because it’s clear they don’t know what to do with him
Seems to me we've kept too many players with the same sort of attributes. Do we need smithies, partington, shorrocks, Burne and havard? I'd say unfortunately no. If we release one or two there will be an outcry because they are all decent, but they offer similar things to one another and to higher paid seniors.
Yup that’s the point I was making way to similar sort of players have come through and if they’re costing so much,to me 2 of them should be moved on as there is plenty of other places in the squad that needs strengthening and if you ask me to chose who to let go it’s be Smithees and Partington and Byrne if I’m being honest.
The squad needs addressing and quickly if it means sacrificing a couple of players then so be it.
Surprised nobody brought French up. The club basically admitted he didn’t return fit and his injury was likely caused by being played too soon.
A lot of people on here were convinced him and Hastings would have a training programme in Aus and there wouldn’t be an issue…
Also, interesting the club talks about financial struggles and how it will limit signings but in the next sentence mentions offerings Williams the clubs largest ever deal?
nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 pm
Just read the transcript, excellent read.
Surprised nobody brought French up. The club basically admitted he didn’t return fit and his injury was likely caused by being played too soon.
A lot of people on here were convinced him and Hastings would have a training programme in Aus and there wouldn’t be an issue…
Also, interesting the club talks about financial struggles and how it will limit signings but in the next sentence mentions offerings Williams the clubs largest ever deal?
I suppose you can offer a deal in the hope it won’t be signed?
