Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

I think with Zak it’s not that he isn’t good in attack - he’s actually very good in attack as a support player as he was for Cas

Problem is with wigan we need players who can create something from nothing because the team as a whole haven’t got a clue so we are now reliant on a George Williams or a bevan french because the team isn’t well drilled enough to carve out opportunities as a team
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
Exiled Wiganer
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by Exiled Wiganer »

Our problem is simple - we got nothing from the props, hooker or 13, and so the backs have a genuinely impossible job. They are getting rubbish slow ball faced with a set defence.
nathan_rugby
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by nathan_rugby »

Caboosegg wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:16 pm
pedro wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:19 pm
Charriots Offiah wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:00 pm We would have won that game yesterday with Sam Tomkins or Bevan French at fullback. I am not knocking Zak for his effort, he was much better against Wire and one of our top performers, but his passing game and vision is not at the necessary level and it is affecting our attack.
he doesnt seem to be able to see a pass, if he could become a link he would be class, as it is hes killing plays
To be fair we have seen Zak at Leeds and cas and his strength has always been defence, running good lines and making breaks (in that order for me)
Agreed, we should therefore alter our attack to suit his skills or the ball will just get stuck at Zak if we are expecting him to make space and be creative.

The problem starts with the attacking structures between 9, 7 and 6.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
nathan_rugby
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by nathan_rugby »

Exiled Wiganer wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:32 am Our problem is simple - we got nothing from the props, hooker or 13, and so the backs have a genuinely impossible job. They are getting rubbish slow ball faced with a set defence.
An over simplification of the problem.

Is our ability to make yards, gain field position, get fast POTBs, force penalties an issue - Yes (Down to a combination of tactics and our lack of senior props that get played)

But it isn't the only issue.

Our long range kicking game is a problem. It wouldn't be as big of an issue if the point above wasn't so prominant.

But there is also an issue with our attacking structures and ability to create space. We need our 9, 7 and 6 combining and setting up plays with forwards as optional runners and our fullbacks and centres outwide ready to create space. This comes down to training and tactics. What I am astonished with though is just how clueless we look at times and how unlikely we are to score. Its as if the players have forgotten how to play rugby.

You don't necessarily need a 13 who is a ball player to have good attacking structures and to get your wingers and centres in space. Its a benefit / luxury but not a pre-requisite. Dependent on the position of the pitch, the ball going through 7, 6, 1 to a centre or 7, 6 to a centre should suffice. What we should work more on is props running in pairs, taking the ball up to the defence and passing it behind - something lockers did well at and requires mimimal passing ability as long as its practiced.

Let's forget about a ball playing 13, Farrell and Bateman would be the prime candidates but they do not have the ability to play like Lockers did and it would detract from where they are best played (On the edges as second rowers rather than in the middle of the pitch)
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
fozzieskem
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by fozzieskem »

When you look at Maloney’s kick on Saturday to Kassiano when was the last time Wigan tried anything like that?

I shudder to think what it’ll be like like next season without Hastings hells teeth it’s bad enough with him but take him out and it’s going to be a long,long season.
morley pie eater
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by morley pie eater »

Watching us against Saints, to me the simplest difference between the two teams is that Saints almost always had a runner at first receiver coming on to the ball at speed, especiall in their own half. Most effective from a quick ptb, but still gains an extra 5 metres or so when the ptb is slow and the defence is solid.

By comparison, we were invariably flat-footed. The first receiver was more often than not static or moving slowly, sideways, or looking round for support. Meanwhile the defence was up on us and we failed to gain much ground .

I know the replies I'll get: "it's Powell's fault." But that's simplistic. Put Sam in a well-drilled team like Saints and the options would be there for him. Put Roby in our team and they wouldn't. Plus we were the same with Shorrocks or Hastings at dummy half.

Primarily it seems that it's a coaching issue to me. Timing and coordination between dummy half and first receiver need to be practised/drilled so they become muscle memory.
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fozzieskem
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by fozzieskem »

morley pie eater wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:18 pm Watching us against Saints, to me the simplest difference between the two teams is that Saints almost always had a runner at first receiver coming on to the ball at speed, especiall in their own half. Most effective from a quick ptb, but still gains an extra 5 metres or so when the ptb is slow and the defence is solid.

By comparison, we were invariably flat-footed. The first receiver was more often than not static or moving slowly, sideways, or looking round for support. Meanwhile the defence was up on us and we failed to gain much ground .

I know the replies I'll get: "it's Powell's fault." But that's simplistic. Put Sam in a well-drilled team like Saints and the options would be there for him. Put Roby in our team and they wouldn't. Plus we were the same with Shorrocks or Hastings at dummy half.

Primarily it seems that it's a coaching issue to me. Timing and coordination between dummy half and first receiver need to be practised/drilled so they become muscle memory.
Good points all.

And I throw a “it’s Powell’s” fault for good measure😀
moto748
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by moto748 »

The point about props running in pairs is a good one. Why don't we do that? It's not just that we do too much 'one-out rugby', it's that it's the worst kind of one-out rugby. Not so bad if it's players hitting the ball at pace, making ten metres and getting a quick p-t-b, followed by the next guy doing the same. But someone receiving the ball standing still, whilst the rest of the team stands back and watches him make his four or five metres... even The Great Walmsley would be struggling! :lol: So no wonder our young lads are.
DaveO
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Re: Wigan’s Magic Weekend squad

Post by DaveO »

morley pie eater wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:18 pm I know the replies I'll get: "it's Powell's fault." But that's simplistic. Put Sam in a well-drilled team like Saints and the options would be there for him. Put Roby in our team and they wouldn't. Plus we were the same with Shorrocks or Hastings at dummy half.

Primarily it seems that it's a coaching issue to me. Timing and coordination between dummy half and first receiver need to be practised/drilled so they become muscle memory.
I think it's simplistic to imply it's everybody's fault but Powell's which the above does. He's part of the problem because his passes are so slow the dummy runner would be half way to the try line before the ball left his hand. He does a dummy at AHB half the time. Shorrocks and Hastings aren't hookers (in fact it's a bit bizarre Shorrocks is even picked at 9) and Roby would give players options Powell doesn't. He would also show some leadership and tell his team mates what he wants and what move he wants to put on. Most of our players, including Powell, don't do this. I don't know if we are supposed to have a leadership group in the team but if we have I don't know who they are because you don't see much on-field leadership going on.
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