Wigan attack

[Wiganer Ted]

Contrast last night to last week v Catalans. We had a front row that Lam didn't rate and hardly played in Clubb, Bullock & Clark and started with Shorrocks at 9 and Oli P at 13. They took it to the Cats big time and at the end of the first set Hastings had space and time to slot a 40/20. Last night starting with Lam's preferred front row of Singleton, Powell & Partington we struggled all night. Lam's preferred pack has failed all year. Yet he still tried it for the umpteenth time and it failed for the umpteenth time.

If Lam had picked last weeks pack to face Leeds with Singleton replacing the injured Bullock we'd have won by some distance. There's no way that Leeds set of forwards could match our last week's pack. McDonnell & KPP were far better than Farrell and Bateman last night. Oli P is never a starting prop but a great option to start at 13.
Farrell and Bateman are two exceptional players but pairing them together has failed all year. Shorrocks looks a natural fit at 13 and with good coaching could make the position his own.

Sort out the pack and with the backs we already have it make for a far better season 2022 than 2021. As far as the backs go French will be full back. Miski right wing with Hardaker gone Hankinson should replace him. Hanks is a natural right centre who can pass to the right. He also solves the goal kicking problem which we've had all season. Thornley to replace Gildart with Marshall outside him. Halves of Field and Smith we don't know how they will go but Smith will improve playing behind a winning pack than behind a beaten one.

As for adding to the squad. It has been said we have £73k available after signing a half. We haven't yet signed a half so that money is still available. Also if/when Zac leaves his salary will be available to improve the squad.
Last season was so awful due to Lam's fixation with players and not playing them. in 2020 it was Escare & Hankinson, last season it was Bullock & Clark with Clubb suffering at times from it too.

Lam has now gone and most of our problems which have been created and caused by him will leave with him.
The new coaching team can start anew with their thoughts, the players available and recommendations on signings.

[acwrlfc]

Agree with most of whats being written but for what its worth with Powell and Smith in the side we have a huge attacking issue.

Powell offensively offers nothing and is way too slow with his passing and he has no scoot.

Smith well i just dont get the hype and age cant be used as an excuse look at Lewis tonight for Hull KR. He lacks space, no passing game to talk about and is kicking game which was his strength as a junior is quite poor at SL Level.

Unfortunately playing well against the Aussie Juniors isnt a guarantee to make it at SL level further down the track,.

He needs a massive off season and possibly better coaching but i think he hasnt got the tools to make it at the top level, which is what we all hoped for

[ian.birchall]

Agree with most of whats being written but for what its worth with Powell and Smith in the side we have a huge attacking issue.

Powell offensively offers nothing and is way too slow with his passing and he has no scoot.

Smith well i just dont get the hype and age cant be used as an excuse look at Lewis tonight for Hull KR. He lacks space, no passing game to talk about and is kicking game which was his strength as a junior is quite poor at SL Level.

Unfortunately playing well against the Aussie Juniors isnt a guarantee to make it at SL level further down the track,.

He needs a massive off season and possibly better coaching but i think he hasnt got the tools to make it at the top level, which is what we all hoped for

All we need is a couple of big ball handling props and half backs Wilf Pryce and Mikey Lewis and we would be home and clear for 10 years. Where is our billionaire?

[EagleEyePie]

So how many minutes should Powell play on average?

Keep in mind whenever he’s on the pitch there is no attacking threat from our no 9 so how many minutes per game is that acceptable for? How many minutes is it acceptable the opposition can be in the faces of our players due to his slow delivery from AHB?

This why what he offers is absolutely not fine. I don’t know of another team in the league who has a no 9 who offers so little on attack even if they play two hookers. Other hookers can attack and defend a prime example being our ex no 9 Micky Mac.

I just don’t get why people seem to feel the need to justify a place for Powell in the team by suggesting because he tackles a lot he’s worth his place.

You've chosen as an example of a player who can attack and defend a player who is just as limited in attack as Powell. We know this because McIlorum played for us for years and when he was here was frequently criticised for exactly the same thing that Powell gets criticised for. McIlorum was frequently criticised for being all defence but limited in attack. McIlorum and Powell are pretty much carbon copies in terms of style of play, right down to dummy one way - pass to the other being pretty much the limit to what they bring at the ruck. Neither is close to the level that the best hookers in the competition are at. Both players spend pretty much 95% of the game just putting in simple passes from dummy half.

Just a little statistical comparison here:

Tries per game:
McIlorum - 0.1
Powell - 0.2

Assists per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.3

Carries per game:
McIlorum - 1.3
Powell - 3.4

Dummy half runs per game:
McIlorum - 1
Powell - 1.8

Metres per game:
McIlorum - 7.8
Powell - 17.3

Tackles per game:
McIlorum - 27.7
Powell - 40.4

Tackle success %:
McIlorum - 90.2
Powell - 93.9

Errors per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.5

Penalties per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.7

And bear in mind this is comparing McIlorum during Catalans best season in their history and Powell in what must be Wigan's weakest attacking side in history. If a player whose primary focus is defence is good enough for the team currently top of the table, and was good enough for the team that finished top of the table last season, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. But Catalans have used Arthur Mourgue to inject some life into the ruck frequently this year, and while Alrix Da Costa is another player who is similar to McIlorum and Powell he's at least another recognised hooker.

For me the problem is probably going to be how much Radlinski has decided Powell is worth. I'd bet he's on a wage up there with the key players in our squad making Rads reluctant to spend any more in that position, even though it's obvious we'd benefit from it.

[Mike]

So how many minutes should Powell play on average?

Keep in mind whenever he’s on the pitch there is no attacking threat from our no 9 so how many minutes per game is that acceptable for? How many minutes is it acceptable the opposition can be in the faces of our players due to his slow delivery from AHB?

This why what he offers is absolutely not fine. I don’t know of another team in the league who has a no 9 who offers so little on attack even if they play two hookers. Other hookers can attack and defend a prime example being our ex no 9 Micky Mac.

I just don’t get why people seem to feel the need to justify a place for Powell in the team by suggesting because he tackles a lot he’s worth his place.

You've chosen as an example of a player who can attack and defend a player who is just as limited in attack as Powell. We know this because McIlorum played for us for years and when he was here was frequently criticised for exactly the same thing that Powell gets criticised for. McIlorum was frequently criticised for being all defence but limited in attack. McIlorum and Powell are pretty much carbon copies in terms of style of play, right down to dummy one way - pass to the other being pretty much the limit to what they bring at the ruck. Neither is close to the level that the best hookers in the competition are at. Both players spend pretty much 95% of the game just putting in simple passes from dummy half.

Just a little statistical comparison here:

Tries per game:
McIlorum - 0.1
Powell - 0.2

Assists per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.3

Carries per game:
McIlorum - 1.3
Powell - 3.4

Dummy half runs per game:
McIlorum - 1
Powell - 1.8

Metres per game:
McIlorum - 7.8
Powell - 17.3

Tackles per game:
McIlorum - 27.7
Powell - 40.4

Tackle success %:
McIlorum - 90.2
Powell - 93.9

Errors per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.5

Penalties per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.7

And bear in mind this is comparing McIlorum during Catalans best season in their history and Powell in what must be Wigan's weakest attacking side in history. If a player whose primary focus is defence is good enough for the team currently top of the table, and was good enough for the team that finished top of the table last season, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. But Catalans have used Arthur Mourgue to inject some life into the ruck frequently this year, and while Alrix Da Costa is another player who is similar to McIlorum and Powell he's at least another recognised hooker.

For me the problem is probably going to be how much Radlinski has decided Powell is worth. I'd bet he's on a wage up there with the key players in our squad making Rads reluctant to spend any more in that position, even though it's obvious we'd benefit from it.

Very interesting analysis. It's strange how a little time changes the opinion of players styles. I also thoight mcillorum offered more attack tham Sam, but I stand corrected.

[pedro]

how many games have each of them players played this year? and v what opposition> if its not the same then the stats are pointless, I dont think MM got to play Leigh 3 times

[Mike]

Stats are meaningless unless they support your point of view. Its the modern world.

[pedro]

Stats are meaningless unless they support your point of view. Its the modern world.

they are meaningless for comparison if the important variables are different

[Firestarter]

Im no powell hater but i do think/know tjat mm is far superior….. the aussies wernt following him for no reason….. sams problem is that he never really mastered any one position but is a good team player…. Very similar to isa as not fast or big enough for example

[DaveO]

So how many minutes should Powell play on average?

Keep in mind whenever he’s on the pitch there is no attacking threat from our no 9 so how many minutes per game is that acceptable for? How many minutes is it acceptable the opposition can be in the faces of our players due to his slow delivery from AHB?

This why what he offers is absolutely not fine. I don’t know of another team in the league who has a no 9 who offers so little on attack even if they play two hookers. Other hookers can attack and defend a prime example being our ex no 9 Micky Mac.

I just don’t get why people seem to feel the need to justify a place for Powell in the team by suggesting because he tackles a lot he’s worth his place.

You've chosen as an example of a player who can attack and defend a player who is just as limited in attack as Powell. We know this because McIlorum played for us for years and when he was here was frequently criticised for exactly the same thing that Powell gets criticised for. McIlorum was frequently criticised for being all defence but limited in attack. McIlorum and Powell are pretty much carbon copies in terms of style of play, right down to dummy one way - pass to the other being pretty much the limit to what they bring at the ruck. Neither is close to the level that the best hookers in the competition are at. Both players spend pretty much 95% of the game just putting in simple passes from dummy half.

Just a little statistical comparison here:

Tries per game:
McIlorum - 0.1
Powell - 0.2

Assists per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.3

Carries per game:
McIlorum - 1.3
Powell - 3.4

Dummy half runs per game:
McIlorum - 1
Powell - 1.8

Metres per game:
McIlorum - 7.8
Powell - 17.3

Tackles per game:
McIlorum - 27.7
Powell - 40.4

Tackle success %:
McIlorum - 90.2
Powell - 93.9

Errors per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.5

Penalties per game:
McIlorum - 0.3
Powell - 0.7

And bear in mind this is comparing McIlorum during Catalans best season in their history and Powell in what must be Wigan's weakest attacking side in history. If a player whose primary focus is defence is good enough for the team currently top of the table, and was good enough for the team that finished top of the table last season, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. But Catalans have used Arthur Mourgue to inject some life into the ruck frequently this year, and while Alrix Da Costa is another player who is similar to McIlorum and Powell he's at least another recognised hooker.

For me the problem is probably going to be how much Radlinski has decided Powell is worth. I'd bet he's on a wage up there with the key players in our squad making Rads reluctant to spend any more in that position, even though it's obvious we'd benefit from it.

Micky Mac criticised for the same things as Powell? No he wasn’t. No idea where you dreamt that up.

Powell’s faults are obvious. You can throw up as many stats as you like but unless you are blind you know he’s crap and has no place in a top side. If you want some stats compare his stats to Dwyer’s on Thursday.

The constant desire to defend this particular player against justified criticism is baffling..

Do you actually watch what he does?