Pace

[No straw damn us]

Our academy scouting seems fine, although there are definitely positions where we don't produce top players with the same regularity as other positions. Those problem positions being centre, hooker and fullback. We may have converted academy players from other positions into those roles but rarely in recent years have we developed players in those positions from academy to first team standard. Not sure how that compares to other clubs though but most clubs don't seem to produce as many first team standard players as us full stop.

When it comes to experienced players mainly we just suck at recruiting props. In all other positions we've seemed to be okay and on balance no better or worse than other clubs.

So who have we missed out on? we brought in Bateman, KPP, Dan Sarginson Blake Green, Matty Smith, Scott Taylor etc. Admittedly we signed a few turkeys Escare but that happens to most clubs.

[EagleEyePie]

Our academy scouting seems fine, although there are definitely positions where we don't produce top players with the same regularity as other positions. Those problem positions being centre, hooker and fullback. We may have converted academy players from other positions into those roles but rarely in recent years have we developed players in those positions from academy to first team standard. Not sure how that compares to other clubs though but most clubs don't seem to produce as many first team standard players as us full stop.

When it comes to experienced players mainly we just suck at recruiting props. In all other positions we've seemed to be okay and on balance no better or worse than other clubs.

So who have we missed out on? we brought in Bateman, KPP, Dan Sarginson Blake Green, Matty Smith, Scott Taylor etc. Admittedly we signed a few turkeys Escare but that happens to most clubs.

Scott Taylor is the only one on that list who is a prop, which kind of proves the point. Recruitment everywhere else has been fine, but there are plenty of props that have been signed by other clubs and had a big impact and been in comparison better than the props we had at the time.

[josie andrews]

Our academy scouting seems fine, although there are definitely positions where we don't produce top players with the same regularity as other positions. Those problem positions being centre, hooker and fullback. We may have converted academy players from other positions into those roles but rarely in recent years have we developed players in those positions from academy to first team standard. Not sure how that compares to other clubs though but most clubs don't seem to produce as many first team standard players as us full stop.

When it comes to experienced players mainly we just suck at recruiting props. In all other positions we've seemed to be okay and on balance no better or worse than other clubs.

So who have we missed out on? we brought in Bateman, KPP, Dan Sarginson Blake Green, Matty Smith, Scott Taylor etc. Admittedly we signed a few turkeys Escare but that happens to most clubs.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Escare!

[DaveO]

Ten academy championships in twelve years!!!

Once the players are "scouted" and signed it's up to the coaching team to develop them.

Who do you think we've missed out on?

Well it was John Monie who said you would do well if you got two first team standard players from your academy or equivalent.

The fact Wigan have won those ten championships yet have
produced just two decent centres in all of that time (Goulding and Gildart) suggests he wasn’t wrong.

So we're only to be judged on producing centres?

Centres was just and example and I was making the point if the number of academy championships was any guide to potential first team success we should have produced several first team standard centres and we haven’t.

It applies to several other positions as well because if you look at out first team we have plenty of players we have brought in and quite a few are not top class players any club would want.

If this impressive academy record was relevant why does the club need to bring in players of the standard of Isa, Bibby, Thornley and Clark?

These are not star players and yet we still end up signing players of this standard despite dominating academy rugby.

We are now even starting to see questions over whether those in the current first team who have come through the academy are good enough e.g. Byrne and Partington.

So you can judge it more than on just centres if you want and in my opinion Monie was right.

[moto748]

That is so dishonest. Do you really believe this jaded negativity in every post that you inflict on us day in, day out? As has been pointed out many times, it's a salary-capped sport, nobody is going to have 13 superstars. And Isa is one of the comp's biggest tacklers, and Bibby one of the highest try-scorers. Do you seriously believe we should be able to magic kids into the first team from the academy, without a few questions being asked along the way about their long-term effectiveness?


It's not clear what your point is. If Monie is right, does that mean Wigan are too invested in their academy, is that what you are saying? But you also appear to be claiming that the standard of our academy isn't all that (despite being palpably better than anyone else's), so instead of filling the side with boy geniuses, we are forced to buy 'second-raters' like Willie Isa. Nothing will ever please you, will it?

[Caboosegg]

That is so dishonest. Do you really believe this jaded negativity in every post that you inflict on us day in, day out? As has been pointed out many times, it's a salary-capped sport, nobody is going to have 13 superstars. And Isa is one of the comp's biggest tacklers, and Bibby one of the highest try-scorers. Do you seriously believe we should be able to magic kids into the first team from the academy, without a few questions being asked along the way about their long-term effectiveness?


It's not clear what your point is. If Monie is right, does that mean Wigan are too invested in their academy, is that what you are saying? But you also appear to be claiming that the standard of our academy isn't all that (despite being palpably better than anyone else's), so instead of filling the side with boy geniuses, we are forced to buy 'second-raters' like Willie Isa. Nothing will ever please you, will it?

Its the vocal minority. I wonder how many of your normal fans the ones that don't post on forums actually have issues with Isa or Bibby.

[Wiganer Ted]

Isa himself isn't a problem. My problem with him was that he was selected to play centre most of the season when his best days in that position are gone. Isa gives 100% every game, just that players shouldn't be played out of position all season. Not his fault though! Probably be in the game 1-17 next season.

As for Bibby, what position was he signed for? Seems a poor quality centre but better on the wing. We can get better wingmen than him as he hasn't got the pace a wingman needs. Like Isa, gives his best every week, sometimes his best is good and other weeks his best isn't good enough. Can't see him being in the starting 1-17 next season.

As for overall pace of the backs. French is rapid, Miski looks quite quick, Hankinson and Thornley aren't quick at all, Marshall can really shift. Field is lightning quick and Smith is quite quick too. Overall, we have pretty fast backs with probably the three fastest players in SL.

[nathan_rugby]

Speed is irrelevant if there isn’t any space.

If we attack like we did this year it won’t matter how fast or slow we are.

[Wiganer Ted]

Speed is irrelevant if there isn’t any space.

If we attack like we did this year it won’t matter how fast or slow we are.

We won't play the same next year as Lam won't be head coach.
Everyone at the club knows they have to play much better and a more entertaining type of rugby too.
They were well capable of better rugby and better results but Lam was head coach and we under performed massively.

[DaveO]

That is so dishonest. Do you really believe this jaded negativity in every post that you inflict on us day in, day out? As has been pointed out many times, it's a salary-capped sport, nobody is going to have 13 superstars. And Isa is one of the comp's biggest tacklers, and Bibby one of the highest try-scorers. Do you seriously believe we should be able to magic kids into the first team from the academy, without a few questions being asked along the way about their long-term effectiveness?


It's not clear what your point is. If Monie is right, does that mean Wigan are too invested in their academy, is that what you are saying? But you also appear to be claiming that the standard of our academy isn't all that (despite being palpably better than anyone else's), so instead of filling the side with boy geniuses, we are forced to buy 'second-raters' like Willie Isa. Nothing will ever please you, will it?

What are you on about dishonest? I am simply making the point those championship winning sides have not delivered very many SL standard players and Monie was right in what he said. So it’s a bit irrelevant how many championships they won.

Wigan’s first team squad is full of players who were not produced by Wigan and a lot of them are average to poor players. If the rumours about TL and Sarge pan out it will be 13 senior players if Hardaker is still here. The club spent to the full cap bar G Burgess wage this season ( £141k) and it’s currently £223k short of the cap next season with a worse squad.

The idea we exist in a salary cap sport requires Wigan to sign players like Thornley and see rumours that TL will go again is not on in my opinion. Too many “squad” players.