This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
pedro
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by pedro »

Exiled Wiganer wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:53 pm One point about Saints and Catalans is that the salary cap is a gross cap, and so Catalans can pay net a fair bit more as their income tax is lower, while McManus has a background in financial planning which could help people get more from eg image rights, being directors of companies, overseas tax arrangements. I am not suggesting he is, just throwing it out there when it comes to a question of “they seem to be able to afford to pay more...”,
Catalans can pay more also, due to the Euro being strong they get more for their buck
nathan_rugby
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by nathan_rugby »

ddtftf wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:18 pm I am confused with paying to the salary cap limit as a few players i know who have left say Wigan are one of the worst payers in the RL that is why Tom Davis went to Catalans he was on peanuts at Wigan it was the only reason he left so i am confused with paying better wages to young players
Davies was 4th choice winger at the time wasn’t he?

Also, wouldn’t the contract he was on be this standard 2 year contract academy graduates get and it’s the one after that is open for negotiation?
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
widdenoldboy
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by widdenoldboy »

nathan_rugby wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:34 am Our success last season towards the end was due to Singleton coming in and starting games with him and bullock

The prop situation is absolutely dire, in terms of who Lam picked the order was:
Singleton
Partington
Havard
Byrne
Bullock
Clubb
Clarke

Clear issues are
1 - too much youth all at same level
2 - imbalance
3 - not using experience when it’s needed
4 - overall it isn’t good enough no matter which order you start people, let’s be honest. are any 4 of those players overall good enough to compete on highest level?
Spot on, if we can get a better balance and drip feed the young lads might be OK - best of the bunch for me is Havard, the others its a make or break season.
We need at least one more experienced prop for that and if we go big, the rest will follow.
Your list really shows why we have been so poor.
DaveO
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by DaveO »

Exiled Wiganer wrote:One point about Saints and Catalans is that the salary cap is a gross cap, and so Catalans can pay net a fair bit more as their income tax is lower, while McManus has a background in financial planning which could help people get more from eg image rights, being directors of companies, overseas tax arrangements. I am not suggesting he is, just throwing it out there when it comes to a question of “they seem to be able to afford to pay more...”,
Income tax is paid by the player and as high earners players will be subject to tax rates of 30%, 41% and 45% in France. In France households are taxed as opposed to individuals so this can reduce the tax bill a bit (but not significantly) but most players will be taxed as individuals. So I am not sure where you get the idea from they will pay less tax.

As to McManus and any financial skulduggery that would be braking the cap rules. It’s surprisingly watertight and paying players more by what are in effect backhanders is hard. Each player has a salary cap value based on his contract and so the only way Saints or any other club could get around that is say his contract is less than what they want to pay him and pay the rest outside of this. It will never happen as all it takes is one disgruntled former player to blow the whistle and Saints would be up for the high jump.
DaveO
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by DaveO »

pedro wrote:
Exiled Wiganer wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:53 pm One point about Saints and Catalans is that the salary cap is a gross cap, and so Catalans can pay net a fair bit more as their income tax is lower, while McManus has a background in financial planning which could help people get more from eg image rights, being directors of companies, overseas tax arrangements. I am not suggesting he is, just throwing it out there when it comes to a question of “they seem to be able to afford to pay more...”,
Catalans can pay more also, due to the Euro being strong they get more for their buck
Why? Surely you just convert £2.1m to Euros at whatever rate is chosen at the time. So today that would be about €2.45m.

So they get exactly the same bang for their buck.

The only advantage they would get is if the value of the £ crashed and the exchange rate hasn’t fluctuated much in recent years. It’s about the same now as it was in 2018.
josie andrews
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by josie andrews »

ddtftf wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:18 pm I am confused with paying to the salary cap limit as a few players i know who have left say Wigan are one of the worst payers in the RL that is why Tom Davis went to Catalans he was on peanuts at Wigan it was the only reason he left so i am confused with paying better wages to young players
To left because he was third or fourth down in the pecking order at the time. He got that bad leg injury & he couldn’t get back in the team. He been given a four or five year contract prior to his injury!
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage.
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josie andrews
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by josie andrews »

nathan_rugby wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:33 pm
ddtftf wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:18 pm I am confused with paying to the salary cap limit as a few players i know who have left say Wigan are one of the worst payers in the RL that is why Tom Davis went to Catalans he was on peanuts at Wigan it was the only reason he left so i am confused with paying better wages to young players
Davies was 4th choice winger at the time wasn’t he?

Also, wouldn’t the contract he was on be this standard 2 year contract academy graduates get and it’s the one after that is open for negotiation?
No, he was given a four or five year contract prior to his injury.
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage.
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Mike
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by Mike »

fozzieskem wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:08 pm
No straw damn us wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:06 pm Since Lenagan took over Wigan have won four superleage titles, two challenge cups and a World Club Challenge.

In that same period Saints have won three superleage titles, and two challenge cups.
But I'd argue saint's are still on an upward curve whereas wigan have stalled,for awhile at least
Nah, they peaked the season before last. They're on a downward curve IMO.
pedro
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by pedro »

DaveO wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:42 pm
pedro wrote:
Exiled Wiganer wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:53 pm One point about Saints and Catalans is that the salary cap is a gross cap, and so Catalans can pay net a fair bit more as their income tax is lower, while McManus has a background in financial planning which could help people get more from eg image rights, being directors of companies, overseas tax arrangements. I am not suggesting he is, just throwing it out there when it comes to a question of “they seem to be able to afford to pay more...”,
Catalans can pay more also, due to the Euro being strong they get more for their buck
Why? Surely you just convert £2.1m to Euros at whatever rate is chosen at the time. So today that would be about €2.45m.

So they get exactly the same bang for their buck.

The only advantage they would get is if the value of the £ crashed and the exchange rate hasn’t fluctuated much in recent years. It’s about the same now as it was in 2018.
its wasnt though, it was set when the cap was raised when the euro wasnt as strong, the cap doesnt move all year when the euro does
PJC
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Re: This season frustrated / worrying/ angry/ frightened

Post by PJC »

The following is not directly connected with the thread but in the longer term it will affect Wigan and the game as a whole. There is much talk about salary cap and running costs of the club. This could be said of many clubs . Player recruitment depends on money. Maybe we don’t want to compete with Union. However there are huge injections of cash into the game. Saracens will be receiving £32 million pounds, Exeter are having a huge new stand built. The money and the press coverage will inevitably cream off some of our best talent.
What can be done to offset corporate finance I couldn’t tell you. However something needs to happen.
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