Briers: Club demands success

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
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Mike
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by Mike »

On average you're more likely to have success with an established player than with someone unknown from the lower leagues. That doesn't mean there's no exceptions, but I'd say in general past record is an indicator of future performance.
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lucky 13
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by lucky 13 »

I'm not sure these days that you can guarantee quality without some issue when signing a name player from the NRL. Let's face it the big question is why a winger with a try per game record isn't being snapped up by an NRL club?
If we look at Burgess it was obvious to all that he had injury issues otherwise he stays in NRL for example. Same with most signings odd good ones are out there no doubt but many are back end or come with baggage either off field, form or body wise.
Our two best recent impact players French and Hastings are examples French was somehow in reserve grade with no sign of interest and Hastings came here last chance saloon.
Just a guess here but if French comes back fit and motivated I find it hard to imagine many having more influence on the league. We have still to see a fit Field and our three signings are in the mould of many who have made very good SL players. I would still like to add a good half and centre to the team .... May still happen.
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DaveO
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by DaveO »

NICKYKISS wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:38 pm
DaveO wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:26 pm
NICKYKISS wrote:
We signed George Burgess for 2020 and Hull FC signed Chris Satae, a lad with 15 NRL appearances to his name at the age of 26.

It’s just a point to highlight that things aren’t always that black and white. The Leeds winger is a good player, absolutely no doubt about it but he does have injury problems. There are numerous cases of lads who haven’t made a big name for themselves Down Under doing well here and loads of huge names (on big contracts) have fallen flat on their faces.
You might as well say Miski or Leeds new winger could break a leg getting off the team bus.

You have to go off the players CV’s. We seem to be reduced to hoping other teams signings are going to fail because ours don’t stack up in comparison with their CV. I just replied to another post in the general RL forum that said Leeds winger was an unknown because he’d never played in SL. [emoji2369]

If we had signed Leeds new winger, it would be seen as a very good signing and I doubt he’d be expected to be a crock any more than the two NRL forwards we have signed are.
You seem to be thinking that I’m saying I’d have picked Miski over Fusitu’a. I really wouldn’t have done but I’m simply pointing out all signings aren’t an exact science and going ‘player A is costing a fortune and has a big rep so has to be better than player B because he hasn’t built a reputation yet’ doesn’t always stack up.

If you consider all aspects of the Fusitu’a deal, it looks a bit of a risk. That’s a risk Leeds can probably afford to take but we can’t. I personally wouldn’t be throwing big money at wingers as we have far more pressing concerns. I just can’t sit here and go mad that Leeds have signed a big money winger and we haven’t because I don’t think we need to do that. I’m more miffed they have signed Sezer, Huddersfield have signed two halfbacks and Williams went to Wire because clearly we do need a halfback.
No my point was simply when you compare signings you have to go off their CV not what might happen.

We all know players going overseas might get homesick for example. It doesn't mean you should never sign any more overseas players because it's a risk. I think pointing out Burgess was a crock which implies some other player might be a crock is a bit of a strawman argument. Just because something can go wrong doesn't mean it will. Or put another way just because something is possible doesn't mean is probable.

There also seems to be a tendency (not saying you did this) to pick fault in opposition signings like Fusitu to justify our signings in this case Miski. It's actually a logical fallacy that relies on Miski becoming a star player in SL while at the same time Fusitu fails. The probability is Fusitu will prove to be a top signing and if we are lucky Miski won't be a complete flop.

As to throwing money at wingers it worked out all right for us when we did that with a certain Martin Offiah and he was the star player in the entire competition. I am not suggesting Fusitu is at that level but rather wing isn't a position you should skimp on.

Regarding Leeds and us. They have got Sezer and Fusitu. We have got Tommy going around again and Miski. :roll:
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by DaveO »

lucky 13 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:53 am I'm not sure these days that you can guarantee quality without some issue when signing a name player from the NRL. Let's face it the big question is why a winger with a try per game record isn't being snapped up by an NRL club?
If we look at Burgess it was obvious to all that he had injury issues otherwise he stays in NRL for example. Same with most signings odd good ones are out there no doubt but many are back end or come with baggage either off field, form or body wise.
Our two best recent impact players French and Hastings are examples French was somehow in reserve grade with no sign of interest and Hastings came here last chance saloon.
Just a guess here but if French comes back fit and motivated I find it hard to imagine many having more influence on the league. We have still to see a fit Field and our three signings are in the mould of many who have made very good SL players. I would still like to add a good half and centre to the team .... May still happen.
Is Fusitu are marquee player for Leeds? Does he want to do as Pat Richards did and use his sporting talents as a way to get to go and sample life overseas? These are just as likely a possibility as there being some issue with Fusitu and the fact Burgess was a crock is irrelevant. So is the fact Hastings had his issues. Yes, it why he came to SL but that doesn't imply Fusitu or other NRL players are coming for negative reasons.

I don't really understand your point about French and Field. Just because French has proved to be a good player doesn't mean Field and Miski will make it. I don't have an issue with the two Aussie forwards because they have some first grade NRL experience.
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jaws1
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by jaws1 »

A player we have signed not even played a match for us Mitski getting negative responses just cos he is coming from the championship Henderson Gill was signed from Rochdale ,Walmsley for Saints signed from Batley ,Cliff Hill signed from Leigh etc etc. Give the bloke a chance scoring 18 tries in as many games cant be bad watch on you tube some tries he scored.
Field is an unknown as he has never played a full game for us .
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by fozzieskem »

jaws1 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:18 am A player we have signed not even played a match for us Mitski getting negative responses just cos he is coming from the championship Henderson Gill was signed from Rochdale ,Walmsley for Saints signed from Batley ,Cliff Hill signed from Leigh etc etc. Give the bloke a chance scoring 18 tries in as many games cant be bad watch on you tube some tries he scored.
Field is an unknown as he has never played a full game for us .
But,but Field is Australian so automatically is uberz isn't he?

I've no issue with taking a chance on an unknown yes it won't sell many season tickets on the back of such a signing but I prefer to see him in the flesh before getting my pitchfork out
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by Shevvylad »

We've had some excellent signings over the years of players from lower league clubs, or who weren't exactly big names at the clubs we signed them from.
Gill's been mentioned, but players like Byrne, Cowie, Panapa, O'Connor, even Ian Roberts came from relatively obscure origins and did a great job for us.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

I dont think anyone is saying the london lad is rubbish are they? what they are saying is that he's a punt and not a aussie with behaviour problems type punt hes a is he even good enough punt

If you look at his career so far it doesnt read stellar passed round the feeder leagues in the NRL not really ever nailing down a spot hence the move to london.

Thats not to say he wont turn out spectacular but its hardly going to get fans queuing for a Miski shirt before he's played. One thing i will say it looks like he knows how to score a try as he seems to have got on the scoresheet when he has had the chance so thats a positive but how the rest of his game will stack up i dont know.
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by Caboosegg »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:29 pm I dont think anyone is saying the london lad is rubbish are they? what they are saying is that he's a punt and not a aussie with behaviour problems type punt hes a is he even good enough punt

If you look at his career so far it doesnt read stellar passed round the feeder leagues in the NRL not really ever nailing down a spot hence the move to london.

Thats not to say he wont turn out spectacular but its hardly going to get fans queuing for a Miski shirt before he's played. One thing i will say it looks like he knows how to score a try as he seems to have got on the scoresheet when he has had the chance so thats a positive but how the rest of his game will stack up i dont know.
You say look at his record and I agree, I am in no way saying he will be amazing but he score record Is impressive across all the teams he's played for and just because he moved to London doesn't mean he should be overlooked.

They where full time team with SL ambitions at the time.
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Mike
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Re: Briers: Club demands success

Post by Mike »

Hankinson's been putting him in. Why break that partnership up?
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