POWELL!!

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
DaveO
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by DaveO »

Caboosegg wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:59 pm
Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:36 pm
buttmonkey2 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:12 pm

Is it an opinion or a fact?

I'm sorry but whenever you see Powell play he is blatantly the slowest hooker in super league. Probably one of the slowest forwards in super league. Not an opinion but a fact from watching him v other players over the years
I suppose without stats to back the claim up I can’t say it as fact - I was tempted to see if they published the speed stats anywhere as we know from the John wells piece they collect them to see where he ranked and whether it was just visual - to play devils advocate pat Richard’s looked a lot slower than he was

However it wouldn’t capture probably the most important area which is off the mark pace - top speed doesn’t count for a lot it’s more than initial acceleration- but Powell literally looks like he’s stuck in quicksand
It just seems that some fans know more than the coach. Someone will say jobs for boys but I don't believe for a minute the club would stick by Powell if he wasn't adding something the wanted.
So what, based on your observations having watched him play, is that "something" the club wants?

Or is it in realty as much of a mystery to you as it is to me and others?

It's seems to me the notion there must be something he adds is a bit like the Emperors New Clothes.
Caboosegg
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by Caboosegg »

DaveO wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:45 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:59 pm
Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:36 pm

I suppose without stats to back the claim up I can’t say it as fact - I was tempted to see if they published the speed stats anywhere as we know from the John wells piece they collect them to see where he ranked and whether it was just visual - to play devils advocate pat Richard’s looked a lot slower than he was

However it wouldn’t capture probably the most important area which is off the mark pace - top speed doesn’t count for a lot it’s more than initial acceleration- but Powell literally looks like he’s stuck in quicksand
It just seems that some fans know more than the coach. Someone will say jobs for boys but I don't believe for a minute the club would stick by Powell if he wasn't adding something the wanted.
So what, based on your observations having watched him play, is that "something" the club wants?

Or is it in realty as much of a mystery to you as it is to me and others?

It's seems to me the notion there must be something he adds is a bit like the Emperors New Clothes.
The problem here DaveO is regardless what I put forward you won't agree, because you have 0 Neutrality on the subject and will use what tenuous link you can to discredit anyone with a opposite view.

I have not stated what he adds as despite the perceived view that of you don't dislike Powell you must love him as a player I would love to see Powell swapped.

But he must add something to the team that the professional coaches see that we don't, anyone who says job for the boys magically forgets all the players we did move on, hell look at Micky Mac, he was one of Wanes favourite players he's even back in the England squad (rightly or wrongly) but he was let go due.to a couple of long term injuries.

My opinion on Powell has never changed, he doesnt add much in attack but he settles the middle and he was a noticeable hole when he first got injured. The team had adapted by the time he came back but the amount of breaks through the centre of the pitch was noticeable up.

Rightly or wrongly Wigan is defined as a club on its outstanding defensive work and Powell fits into that style perfectly.
Hopefully we will see O'Neil given more shots next year but I still stand by that the coach (especially Peet) will pick the best team on the day.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Ok so my argument for Powell being an issues is as follows

Since Mickey Mac left in 2018 i look at the Pivot positions 1,6,7,9 - i would say in those positions over the last few years we have been pretty good,

Fullbacks - Tomkins/Hardaker/French/Field - all top end players
Halfbacks - Williams/hasting/cust as good as any of the top halves, Tommy and Smith also very good
Hooker - Powell in this time

So the only PIVOT position in which we havent had a top player is Hooker

Look at our results in that time against the Top 3 - Im classing the top 3 as Wire/Saints/Leeds as i believe they over this time have been the most likely to win a big game

In the league 2018-2022
2018 - we won 1/3 of matches without Powell, 3/3 with him
2019 - we won 0/2 of matches without Powell, 3/6 with him
2020 - we won 4/5 Powell played all matches
2021 - we won 1/6 Powell played all matches
2022 - we won 3/3 of matches without Powell, 1/5 with him

So in the league you can see our performance against the top teams has slid from 2018 barring a good year in 2020. However note that this year in the first year ever Powell has had a challenge we won 100% of games against the top 3 without him

So what about the matches that matter so play offs or challenge cup - again just focusing on the top teams

Well this is easy to round up

in 2018 we obviously won we played 1 top team to win in the final which was Wire. in the cup we were 0/1

So from 2019-22 we have 0% success rate against these teams with Powell
the exception being this year again in which Powell didnt play and we had 100% success rate

So looking at this year alone the stats read like this
in the League games we won 100% of the matches against the big 3 when Powell didnt play
in the big games we won 100% of matches that Powell didnt play

we won 20% of matches in the league he played
we won 0% of the big games he played

All of that is simple fact - now a lot with scrabble to tell me how wins against catalan or huddersfield are more important blah blah - however there is a good reason i picked these teams with the exception of the challenge cup 2021 there are 3 teams that have ended our quest for a cup Wire/Leeds/Saints thats why they are in here and you can talk all you want about him shoring up the middle but we seem to do better against the big boys without him so keeping wakefield to 12 points instead of 18 isnt going to put trophies in the cabinet

I think if the prizes were given for finishing top of the league - i would probably say Powell would be a more attractive prospect but it isnt we can lose loads of league games it doesnt matter all that matters like it or not in Superleague is beating the top teams in the important games, Powell doesnt help us do that he might keep your points difference pretty in the league but that carries no value
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Wigan1
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by Wigan1 »

Powell along with Smith and Marshall have all been called up to train with the England squad.
josie andrews
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by josie andrews »

Wigan1 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:14 pm Powell along with Smith and Marshall have all been called up to train with the England squad.
Think they are playing on Friday even though they aren’t in the squad! Which is a disgrace at least Marshall & Smith should be in the England squad IMO!!
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

I don’t get the warm up games that don’t include people in the squad like nz playing Tommy and isa - just makes no sense it’s not gaining anything
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
DaveO
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by DaveO »

Caboosegg wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:40 pm
DaveO wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:45 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:59 pm

It just seems that some fans know more than the coach. Someone will say jobs for boys but I don't believe for a minute the club would stick by Powell if he wasn't adding something the wanted.
So what, based on your observations having watched him play, is that "something" the club wants?

Or is it in realty as much of a mystery to you as it is to me and others?

It's seems to me the notion there must be something he adds is a bit like the Emperors New Clothes.
The problem here DaveO is regardless what I put forward you won't agree, because you have 0 Neutrality on the subject and will use what tenuous link you can to discredit anyone with a opposite view.

I have not stated what he adds as despite the perceived view that of you don't dislike Powell you must love him as a player I would love to see Powell swapped.

But he must add something to the team that the professional coaches see that we don't, anyone who says job for the boys magically forgets all the players we did move on, hell look at Micky Mac, he was one of Wanes favourite players he's even back in the England squad (rightly or wrongly) but he was let go due.to a couple of long term injuries.

My opinion on Powell has never changed, he doesnt add much in attack but he settles the middle and he was a noticeable hole when he first got injured. The team had adapted by the time he came back but the amount of breaks through the centre of the pitch was noticeable up.

Rightly or wrongly Wigan is defined as a club on its outstanding defensive work and Powell fits into that style perfectly.
Hopefully we will see O'Neil given more shots next year but I still stand by that the coach (especially Peet) will pick the best team on the day.
Being good in defence doesn’t preclude being good in attack and in the modern game a no 9 needs to offer an attacking threat. The fact he doesn’t means defences largely ignore him.

But it’s not just his own lack of attacking ability which is the problem. It’s how his lack of skills such as his passing clobber the rest of the team. By the time he’s got the ball away even if he does a decent pass, which he often doesn’t, the defence is in the face of our forwards. That was largely the story of the defeat to Leeds in the semi final.

I think his defensive qualities are overstated anyway and his predecessor, Micky Mac was a demon in defence.

So I will agree with you and say he doesn’t offer much in attack but where I will disagree with you is that Wigan is a team that is based on defence so this justifies a player who’s only forte is being able to tackle. No 9 is a key position these days. He’s a forward who needs the skills and pace of 6. Powell has none of it and I am sure you can see that.

It’s also not jobs for the boys with Powell. He’s still a player and so the issue with him is why does he keep getting a new contract? It will be jobs for the boys if he gets a coaching position when he retires from playing which I don’t expect, sadly, for a lot longer than his new two year deal.
Caboosegg
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by Caboosegg »

Wane must of read this forum and decided to troll some people

Sam Powell added to England squad :lol:
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Caboosegg wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:16 pm Wane must of read this forum and decided to troll some people

Sam Powell added to England squad :lol:
I genuinely think there’s some sentiment in this from wane giving Powell a run so he can get a cap
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
morley pie eater
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Re: POWELL!!

Post by morley pie eater »

Congratulations to Sam Powell for well-deserved call up and recognition of his abilities.

For those who disagree, look on the bright side - you've got someone to blame when we get whupped by the Aussies again. I'm sure this thread can keep growing to accommodate 763 more repetitions of the list of reasons that he's no good, a list our regular readers know by heart.
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