POWELL!!

[buttmonkey2]

Now, about Powell being on the losing side against Saints - kindly explain again exactly what it proves . . .

Throwing it out there..........

Well I would guess that Saints find it difficult to defend against our very structured game-plan when we have an individual who offers pace from dummy half thus breaking their organised defense up

[Dreamteam]

Sorry for boring so many of you, but I had to reply to this:



I just checked back through this season's fixtures and found the following:

Lost 31-22 to Hull.
Team included O'Neill, French and Field.

Lost 32-22 to Huddersfield.
O'Neill and French played

Lost 30-12 to Wakefield.
O'Neill French and Field.

Following your reasoning, I presume you believe we should drop these 3 players?

If you’re gonna give a counter argument at least give context. We had 10 players out vs Huddersfield and rested 7. We had Logan Astley playing in the half’s. That was a solid result vs that Huddersfield team away, 2 weeks before the cc final. The hull game was the week before the CC final. Heads was obviously not on that game. In contrast the oneil performance vs saints the other week is the best 9 performance of the season.

Thanks Dream team - you have made the same point as me exactly!!!

I'll spell it out, just for the hard-of-understanding:
Of course I don't think we should drop French, Field or O'Neill because they were on the losing side over 2 or 3 games. That was my attempt at "reductio ad absurdum". (Making a point by reducing a claim to absurdity.)

Now, about Powell being on the losing side against Saints - kindly explain again exactly what it proves . . .

Powell has proved many things in the past 3 seasons now. Many many things

[Shaun Wane Legend]

This thread is pathetic! Stooping to a low point I wouldn’t expect on a club forum.
You are supposed to support the team and its players. This is just feeding Powell haters. He is one of our own! You expect this shite on a rivals forum. Ok if he has a bad game a bit of criticism is warranted but this bile is relentless. It’s an embarrassment.

[Wigan_forever1985]

This thread is pathetic! Stooping to a low point I wouldn’t expect on a club forum.
You are supposed to support the team and its players. This is just feeding Powell haters. He is one of our own! You expect this shite on a rivals forum. Ok if he has a bad game a bit of criticism is warranted but this bile is relentless. It’s an embarrassment.

Typical response - see my earlier comment - attacks personally posters - invents arguments that don’t exist to suit the narrative ignores all the actual points being made and defaults to insulting those making them

[josie andrews]

This thread is pathetic! Stooping to a low point I wouldn’t expect on a club forum.
You are supposed to support the team and its players. This is just feeding Powell haters. He is one of our own! You expect this shite on a rivals forum. Ok if he has a bad game a bit of criticism is warranted but this bile is relentless. It’s an embarrassment.

This isn’t a club forum!

This thread was created to stop other threads being derailed just to include Sam P complaints.

Sorry if this offends you.

I have nothing but admiration for Sam

[DaveO]

The reason we won or lost isn’t down to whether Sam played or not, it is as a consequence of the team’s performance. I think that is what Morley is getting at and I agree with him.

Which isn’t correct. We have always had players who make the team perform better when they play. Otherwise it would not matter a jot if French was replaced Miski in the playoffs would it? The team is definitely the sum of its parts as it’s a team sport but its certainly true a bit of individual skill can turn a game.

In the Saints game in my opinion if Powell had played we would not have scored the first two tries. The plays and passes O’Neil put in for those are not in Sam P’s play book. So two bits of individual skill that confirm to me that given a run in the first team as he has been O’Neil is already the better player.

I think it would be a mistake for Powell to walk back into the side not least because he can’t be match fit.

In general I think the club still has a problem with sticking with players too long. I get the idea Peet & Co want to build a club culture but in recent seasons the club has kept playing players far past the time they should have been let go. Clubb, Lockers and Tommy played on too long and the club seems blind to the fact Powell is not of a standard a top club would expect as a hoooker. Wane on discussing Roby retiring from international RL memtioned three other hookers as replacements at least one of which hasn’t been brilliant this season yet Powell still didn’t get a mention and Wane isn’t an armchair coach is he?

[Charriots Offiah]

The reason we won or lost isn’t down to whether Sam played or not, it is as a consequence of the team’s performance. I think that is what Morley is getting at and I agree with him.

Which isn’t correct. We have always had players who make the team perform better when they play. Otherwise it would not matter a jot if French was replaced Miski in the playoffs would it? The team is definitely the sum of its parts as it’s a team sport but its certainly true a bit of individual skill can turn a game.

In the Saints game in my opinion if Powell had played we would not have scored the first two tries. The plays and passes O’Neil put in for those are not in Sam P’s play book. So two bits of individual skill that confirm to me that given a run in the first team as he has been O’Neil is already the better player.

I think it would be a mistake for Powell to walk back into the side not least because he can’t be match fit.

In general I think the club still has a problem with sticking with players too long. I get the idea Peet & Co want to build a club culture but in recent seasons the club has kept playing players far past the time they should have been let go. Clubb, Lockers and Tommy played on too long and the club seems blind to the fact Powell is not of a standard a top club would expect as a hoooker. Wane on discussing Roby retiring from international RL memtioned three other hookers as replacements at least one of which hasn’t been brilliant this season yet Powell still didn’t get a mention and Wane isn’t an armchair coach is he?

Of course a team’s success, or otherwise, is down to the team’s performance as a whole. Great players can turn a game and a great player can play badly and the team will still win. We have also had bang average players who perform to the best of their ability and contribute vastly to the success of the team. One cannot consistently win without the other. Having said that, I am not in favour of any player walking back into the team, unless injuries necessitate it.

I would also agree with you, and it is something I have posted on several occasions, the club are not ruthless enough when it comes to moving players on.

In my view there are no top class hookers in SL, all the best are on the wane. SW may not be an armchair coach but he still selected Powell to play for Wigan, if he thought he was poor why did he not replace him? In fact, why have all subsequent coaches selected him?

I am more than happy for anyone to criticise any Wigan player if they don’t perform but to single one player out when he is not even playing, is poor form.

[DaveO]

The reason we won or lost isn’t down to whether Sam played or not, it is as a consequence of the team’s performance. I think that is what Morley is getting at and I agree with him.

Which isn’t correct. We have always had players who make the team perform better when they play. Otherwise it would not matter a jot if French was replaced Miski in the playoffs would it? The team is definitely the sum of its parts as it’s a team sport but its certainly true a bit of individual skill can turn a game.

In the Saints game in my opinion if Powell had played we would not have scored the first two tries. The plays and passes O’Neil put in for those are not in Sam P’s play book. So two bits of individual skill that confirm to me that given a run in the first team as he has been O’Neil is already the better player.

I think it would be a mistake for Powell to walk back into the side not least because he can’t be match fit.

In general I think the club still has a problem with sticking with players too long. I get the idea Peet & Co want to build a club culture but in recent seasons the club has kept playing players far past the time they should have been let go. Clubb, Lockers and Tommy played on too long and the club seems blind to the fact Powell is not of a standard a top club would expect as a hoooker. Wane on discussing Roby retiring from international RL memtioned three other hookers as replacements at least one of which hasn’t been brilliant this season yet Powell still didn’t get a mention and Wane isn’t an armchair coach is he?

Of course a team’s success, or otherwise, is down to the team’s performance as a whole. Great players can turn a game and a great player can play badly and the team will still win. We have also had bang average players who perform to the best of their ability and contribute vastly to the success of the team. One cannot consistently win without the other. Having said that, I am not in favour of any player walking back into the team, unless injuries necessitate it.

I would also agree with you, and it is something I have posted on several occasions, the club are not ruthless enough when it comes to moving players on.

In my view there are no top class hookers in SL, all the best are on the wane. SW may not be an armchair coach but he still selected Powell to play for Wigan, if he thought he was poor why did he not replace him? In fact, why have all subsequent coaches selected him?

I am more than happy for anyone to criticise any Wigan player if they don’t perform but to single one player out when he is not even playing, is poor form.

I don’t understand your last sentence. Why can’t people discuss a players merits when he’s injured in comparison to those of his replacement?

SW definitely isn’t an armchair coach but now he’s got the entire league to select from he still does not pick Powell for England. His choice of hooker at Wigan was obviously limited to those in the squad. Now it isn’t Powell does not feature. Why not?

[Wigan_forever1985]

The argument of Powell being picked at Wigan was debunked by wane not even getting him in the top 5 British hookers let’s not even go to the fact there are none british hookers playing better than him in the league who are realistically attainable (parcell)

Why wasn’t he replaced at Wigan - he is obviously incredibly close with the management who wouldn’t want to put someone they know well and like out of a job I would imagine added to that like I say he isn’t getting near a top team in superleague so probably going to be low end or championship which would be a fall

I imagine they like having him round the club too as he is a professional he will train no doubt impeccably and conduct himself in a perfect manner at all times - that though unfortunately will not make him any more useful on the big days

Let’s clear up a point that keeps being raised, one which is really important - no one is saying Sam is in poor form - no one is saying Sam was playing badly before his injury. In fact Sam is incredibly consistent he will play most games to the best of his ability and not make many mistakes at all. The problem is his best isn’t good enough to be a top teams starting 9 and I’m sorry that truth hurts some people but this is sport. I can go run a 100m race the fastest I can possibly go I’m still getting beat by everyone in an Olympic race doesn’t matter how hard I train or how good a person I am - doesn’t matter if I live the life of a true professional I ain’t winning that race. Sport has levels and Powell’s is low end superleague top end championship

As Dave said the first two tries against St. Helens we don’t score if Powell plays as he is incapable of the two contributions O’Neill gave to those tries. Going ahead changed the dynamic of that match completely and sts chasing a match are not the team they are when they are infront

I hate the way people try and twist the comments made about Powell and deviate from what is actually being said and it’s all about being “haters” - no one hates Powell I wish he had a yard more pace - I wish he had a higher rugby IQ I wish he was in general faster at everything but this is real life and this is sport and sport is cruel it will give people talent who don’t deserve it and some people will try their life to be the best but they just don’t have the bits that makes them a top player

[archiekeith]

Good post Wf1985. Just one trivial point but paradoxically significant. There are no "hookers" in RL not since contested scrums went bye and bye.