Ian Lenagan

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Sutty wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:11 pm
Mike wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm
Firestarter wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:46 pm How do most fans think our attack would be if bevan and jai was injured? Genuine question
We'd have had the same season we had under Lam. Without threat players everyone else looks worse, with threat players opportunity opens for the whole team. The coach, whoever he is, can't coach around that.
I disagree. Coaching goes much, much further than just coaching the players on the pitch. The entire ethos at Wigan Warriors has changed in the last 12 months. Not just the players and coaching staff, but all office staff from top to bottom. To quote a friend who works pretty high up in the club, "the difference is absolutely remarkable". There's a buzz about the place, but not just that, there's a respect for themselves and each other. Things like office staff being invited to eat meals with the first team, players acknowledging everyone in the building (something I've experienced first hand) and the whole ethos about respecting the club.

I'd go so far as to say psychology plays an equally big part in success as the coaching does and the way that Matty has used positivity and visualisation as well as respect has paid huge dividends. Listen to the Lee Briers podcasts to hear just how much the ethos has changed this last year. I've been told a lot of things about the culture and atmosphere in the club over the last few years and this last year is a huge contrast to Lam's days.
What i dont understand about this though is Matty was here when lam was here - and he was assistant coach so if we are to credit the impact of Briers then surely Matty could of had all this effect when he was assistant?

To me there are only 3 possible answers for the upturn if it is so dramatic under Peet as head coach

1) Briers has been the difference

2) Lam stopped Matty from having any say on culture or stopped him from being positive with the players or was such an over bearing negative cloud that it negated anything coming from elsewhere

3) Actually the players and coaching staff (including matty) let Lam down and werent giving their all and are now subsequently giving more since his departure

I cant think of any alternatives given that all the people here now were there then barring lam/briers
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Sutty
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Sutty »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:30 pm
Sutty wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:11 pm
Mike wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm

We'd have had the same season we had under Lam. Without threat players everyone else looks worse, with threat players opportunity opens for the whole team. The coach, whoever he is, can't coach around that.
I disagree. Coaching goes much, much further than just coaching the players on the pitch. The entire ethos at Wigan Warriors has changed in the last 12 months. Not just the players and coaching staff, but all office staff from top to bottom. To quote a friend who works pretty high up in the club, "the difference is absolutely remarkable". There's a buzz about the place, but not just that, there's a respect for themselves and each other. Things like office staff being invited to eat meals with the first team, players acknowledging everyone in the building (something I've experienced first hand) and the whole ethos about respecting the club.

I'd go so far as to say psychology plays an equally big part in success as the coaching does and the way that Matty has used positivity and visualisation as well as respect has paid huge dividends. Listen to the Lee Briers podcasts to hear just how much the ethos has changed this last year. I've been told a lot of things about the culture and atmosphere in the club over the last few years and this last year is a huge contrast to Lam's days.
What i dont understand about this though is Matty was here when lam was here - and he was assistant coach so if we are to credit the impact of Briers then surely Matty could of had all this effect when he was assistant?

To me there are only 3 possible answers for the upturn if it is so dramatic under Peet as head coach

1) Briers has been the difference

2) Lam stopped Matty from having any say on culture or stopped him from being positive with the players or was such an over bearing negative cloud that it negated anything coming from elsewhere

3) Actually the players and coaching staff (including matty) let Lam down and werent giving their all and are now subsequently giving more since his departure

I cant think of any alternatives given that all the people here now were there then barring lam/briers
From what I've been told there were failings or issues at many levels, including the attitude of many of the playing group, both on the pitch and within Robin Park. Not particularly disciplinary issues, but things that could be grouped under the "respect" banner. I think Briers has definitely had a big hand in helping the backs to play what's in front of them and to try things. One of the things that stood out to me from his podcast was encouraging the players to try different things and if it doesn't come off then "so what", at least they've tried something.

We've heard a lot last season about the club going out into the community and how that's helped everyone, but it all has a knock on effect. the psychology involved in breeding success starts a long, long time before the players take to the pitch or even start a training session. When working with athletes, I base my whole coaching ethos on empathy and humility because without this you can't build strong relationships and the trust wont be there to lay the foundations of being able to have open and honest conversations, both for the athlete and the coach. What we see on the pitch is just the tip of the spear and probably the last 5% of what actually goes into building success.

Like I said though, the whole culture in the club has changed.


Caboosegg
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Caboosegg »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:30 pm
Sutty wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:11 pm
Mike wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm

We'd have had the same season we had under Lam. Without threat players everyone else looks worse, with threat players opportunity opens for the whole team. The coach, whoever he is, can't coach around that.
I disagree. Coaching goes much, much further than just coaching the players on the pitch. The entire ethos at Wigan Warriors has changed in the last 12 months. Not just the players and coaching staff, but all office staff from top to bottom. To quote a friend who works pretty high up in the club, "the difference is absolutely remarkable". There's a buzz about the place, but not just that, there's a respect for themselves and each other. Things like office staff being invited to eat meals with the first team, players acknowledging everyone in the building (something I've experienced first hand) and the whole ethos about respecting the club.

I'd go so far as to say psychology plays an equally big part in success as the coaching does and the way that Matty has used positivity and visualisation as well as respect has paid huge dividends. Listen to the Lee Briers podcasts to hear just how much the ethos has changed this last year. I've been told a lot of things about the culture and atmosphere in the club over the last few years and this last year is a huge contrast to Lam's days.
What i dont understand about this though is Matty was here when lam was here - and he was assistant coach so if we are to credit the impact of Briers then surely Matty could of had all this effect when he was assistant?

To me there are only 3 possible answers for the upturn if it is so dramatic under Peet as head coach

1) Briers has been the difference

2) Lam stopped Matty from having any say on culture or stopped him from being positive with the players or was such an over bearing negative cloud that it negated anything coming from elsewhere

3) Actually the players and coaching staff (including matty) let Lam down and werent giving their all and are now subsequently giving more since his departure

I cant think of any alternatives given that all the people here now were there then barring lam/briers
Culture is bottom up but living and setting the example is top down. Staff can perform at varying levels depends on the level of competence of the management.

If Lam was a bad egg no amount of work by the assistants could prevent that influence seeping into the squad.

Imagine you're line manager (assistant with set responsibilities) and worked your socks odd constantly but your team underperformed each month as the senior leadership (head coach) was poor at there job and didn't really manage anything past the agenda (game plan).

Know imagine the company replaces the senior leadership would they also associate you with the overall failing despite your hard work? Or potentially while reviewing could they see your work ethic and judge you on that?
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
josie andrews
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by josie andrews »

How can you call Lam a ‘bad egg’? He was shoved into the job due to Edwards crying off at the last minute, he was supposed to be here for a year & then assistant & then trying to get everything working in a short period of time & during a pandemic. We had several long term injuries also.

We played more matches than any other team during the 2 years of Covid because we didn’t pick & choose (cheated really) like other clubs, who & when they wanted to play!

The only thing I had against Lam was his continually playing the young lads, as I & several other members have commented on several times during that period when we had experienced forwards, props etc sitting in the dugout or on season long loans! He didn’t rotate the squad IMO as he should have. We are very lucky the likes of Partington, Smithies, Havard, Byrne, Smith & KPP have come through with their careers unscathed.

Lam loves this club & the people of this town & that will never change.
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But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
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fozzieskem
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by fozzieskem »

As Josie has said Lam had an almost perverse desire to play the young lads almost into the ground it seemed to me,look at Harry Smith on form alone last season he shouldn’t have been picked,in the end it was,it was like hitting a puppy he was so out of form I just didn’t get why week on week Lam kept picking him.

I don’t think you can underestimate the Briers effect on Wigan this season,his arrival,to me st least allowed Matty to start on a top down restructure of the clubs culture,there was a gap between fans and the club caused in part by Covid but it needed addressing and boy did peet do it and in spades to.

I worry with Briers going there’s no “outside”voice giving us a different dimension in play,it’s been a joy to go and watch them this season and I’m greedy I want more of it.
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Mike
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Mike »

Bobby-WRL wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:13 pm
Mike wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm
Firestarter wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:46 pm How do most fans think our attack would be if bevan and jai was injured? Genuine question
We'd have had the same season we had under Lam. Without threat players everyone else looks worse, with threat players opportunity opens for the whole team. The coach, whoever he is, can't coach around that.

So in theory Peet is no better or worse than Lam?
The jury is out for me. Given the big dropoff in form at the business end of the season and the appalling reaction to a game that was slipping away in the semi. The Leeds away match was a huge warning and it wasn't heeded.
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Mike
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Mike »

Caboosegg wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:06 pm
irl_warr wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:28 pm
Bobby-WRL wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:13 pm


So in theory Peet is no better or worse than Lam?
I think Lam has proven quite emphatically he can arrange and organise an attacking style of rugby, albeit in a sub-standard league. I think with a better assistant (Briers) and both Field, French & Hastings available, we would of had a very similar season.

I am looking forward to seeing how Leigh (& Lam) go in SL next year.
Hastings was a big part of our issues in attack, he had to do everything himself.
Yes he did. There was no one else. If Hastings field and French had been in the same team IMO we'd have gone one better than the previous season where only a fluke cost us the GF win. Hastings alone couldn't do it for us, but in the second half of the season he really tried.
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Mike
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Mike »

Sutty wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:11 pm
Mike wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm
Firestarter wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:46 pm How do most fans think our attack would be if bevan and jai was injured? Genuine question
We'd have had the same season we had under Lam. Without threat players everyone else looks worse, with threat players opportunity opens for the whole team. The coach, whoever he is, can't coach around that.
I disagree. Coaching goes much, much further than just coaching the players on the pitch. The entire ethos at Wigan Warriors has changed in the last 12 months. Not just the players and coaching staff, but all office staff from top to bottom. To quote a friend who works pretty high up in the club, "the difference is absolutely remarkable". There's a buzz about the place, but not just that, there's a respect for themselves and each other. Things like office staff being invited to eat meals with the first team, players acknowledging everyone in the building (something I've experienced first hand) and the whole ethos about respecting the club.

I'd go so far as to say psychology plays an equally big part in success as the coaching does and the way that Matty has used positivity and visualisation as well as respect has paid huge dividends. Listen to the Lee Briers podcasts to hear just how much the ethos has changed this last year. I've been told a lot of things about the culture and atmosphere in the club over the last few years and this last year is a huge contrast to Lam's days.

Buzz around the club has produced exciting and attacking rugby? Or exciting and attacking rugby has produced a buzz?

I haven't made my mind up about it. Style and inclusivity around the club is one thing and its clearly positive, but is it as related to performances on the pitch as the availability of strike players? I'm not so sure yet.
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Mike
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by Mike »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:30 pm
Sutty wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:11 pm
Mike wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm

We'd have had the same season we had under Lam. Without threat players everyone else looks worse, with threat players opportunity opens for the whole team. The coach, whoever he is, can't coach around that.
I disagree. Coaching goes much, much further than just coaching the players on the pitch. The entire ethos at Wigan Warriors has changed in the last 12 months. Not just the players and coaching staff, but all office staff from top to bottom. To quote a friend who works pretty high up in the club, "the difference is absolutely remarkable". There's a buzz about the place, but not just that, there's a respect for themselves and each other. Things like office staff being invited to eat meals with the first team, players acknowledging everyone in the building (something I've experienced first hand) and the whole ethos about respecting the club.

I'd go so far as to say psychology plays an equally big part in success as the coaching does and the way that Matty has used positivity and visualisation as well as respect has paid huge dividends. Listen to the Lee Briers podcasts to hear just how much the ethos has changed this last year. I've been told a lot of things about the culture and atmosphere in the club over the last few years and this last year is a huge contrast to Lam's days.
What i dont understand about this though is Matty was here when lam was here - and he was assistant coach so if we are to credit the impact of Briers then surely Matty could of had all this effect when he was assistant?

To me there are only 3 possible answers for the upturn if it is so dramatic under Peet as head coach

1) Briers has been the difference

2) Lam stopped Matty from having any say on culture or stopped him from being positive with the players or was such an over bearing negative cloud that it negated anything coming from elsewhere

3) Actually the players and coaching staff (including matty) let Lam down and werent giving their all and are now subsequently giving more since his departure

I cant think of any alternatives given that all the people here now were there then barring lam/briers
4) field and French we're injured and we had no potential to make breaks.
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lucky 13
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Re: Ian Lenagan

Post by lucky 13 »

I think you can pretty much say all the above is true to some degree.
Lam loves Wigan 100% he was a stop gap so always had that hanging over him.
While I genuinely like him his squad choices and subs at times drove me mad. He was unlucky not to win the GF the season when Matty Peet came back, that season when he arrived into our set up performances improved massively especially in D where Peet was supposed to be in charge. Singleton coming in also seemed to galvanize the squad towards the backend. The season after we lost Lockers from playing and while not at his best it's massive boots to fill from a standards point and that impact shouldn't be understated. We had also lost such a big turning point game on the last touch of the ball. Then Field got injured and we never recovered after Bevan also did his hamstring. The little things standard wise slipped and we never kicked on.
Things wasn't working and listening to the Matty podcast pre season it was pretty clear that he couldn't change what he wanted to from within in his position.
I think Briers brought a fresh out look like the recruitment it seemed people with points to prove and the right attitude off the field was to a degree the important attribute. You imagine all the best points are picked up by players from coaches they have played under but not all go on to be great coaches so questions rightly remain.
I will miss Briers, the reasons I didn't like him when a player was because he was so good and while he was with us you could see why he caused us so many problems. We all enjoyed our rugby this season I hope it's the same next season and better. We was always short in the centre, it's pretty obvious a Smith Tommy Powell combo in the halves in tough games didn't work and with no real cut outside in the centre it was like we had gone back a season, Faz was a huge miss he made up for that minus outside giving us some threat. Throw one of Cust or O'niel in and we are Ok. Powell is fine with Field Bev Cust Smith Faz outside the ruck but I wish we had a running threat form ruck. The semi we had lost Cust Faz and Bev and even O'neil who is a more threatening ball in hand. It allowed Leeds passive D to stand back and we lacked a way to break it even though I thought we was more dominant than Saints was in the final against them. Just as a note Briers was still coaching us in that semi?
I was proud of us last season not the finished article but plenty strides in the right direction.
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