Ancient & Loyal

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
medlocke
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by medlocke »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:06 pm The difference is that Josie’s comment is fact and not the fault of IFL and co.
Is it a fact that both Lockers and Tommy where given assistant coaching jobs without these jobs being advertised outside of the club to try and find the best person for each job?
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Loyalty and sport are not cohesive bed partners

Loyalty is for relationships and emotional connections

Sport is winning - that’s all it is - you cannot be loyal - being loyal will lose you matches and trophies

Look at all the dominant teams in any sport loyalty is not a quality you should promote. I’m not saying you can be good to the people in the team but the team winning is the only thing any owner/coach should be loyal to period
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the pieman
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by the pieman »

morley pie eater wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:33 pm And repeated references to the 85-95 era, which was exceptional for a number of reasons, and was 28 to 38 years ago, just may be a factor in many being unhappy whatever IL and KR may do.

If fans' expectations are based on an unrepeatable golden era, leading to a miserable, complaining atmosphere at games and around the town during the week. This could explain why we have an ageing fan base.

Younger folk in Wigan may think "That's not for me". They'll be attracted to come back by the atmosphere at games being one that creates excitement and anticipation. Yes, that needs a winning team to some extent, though crowds went up during Nobby's "great escape" period.

As someone who goes to more away games than home ones, I notice a downbeat feeling when I come to the DW. Even at last year's Derby match, we were out-shouted by Saints fans for most of it. The atmosphere only built in response to the team's efforts - shouldn't it work both ways?

I'm sure there are many other factors involved, but, even if I'm partly right, something needs to change from our side.

Before you slag me off, just pause and consider that I might just be partly right. I'm a Wigan fan through and through, have been for approaching 60 years. I want success for the team.

Everything isn't perfect, but if we want improvement, the fans, management and players all need to pull in the same direction. Do you agree?
i wouldnt necessarily say downbeat at home games

there problem is that we have approx 10k fans spread over 3 stands that hold around 20k. There are fans in the South who will sing, fans in the East who will sing, and no doubt a small pocket in the West. So any noise created is limited to a section(s) within each stand, and unless its a big game / 26 man all in, its very rare that everyone at the game is there singing and chanting. I used to have a ST in the East and was close to one of the pockets who made some noise, so was happy to join in. equally there were lots around me made no noise, apart from on the odd occasion. No problems with that, as they pay to watch the games, but they were generally older than me (i'm now approaching 50) and no doubt just want to enjoy the game in front of them

onto away matches, and there is no doubt the atmosphere is better, and i am pretty sure we outsing saints fans at their ground on a regular basis. The fans travelling to away matches tend to be the more hardcore (if thats the right term) and generally are there and get behind the team, win, lose or draw. Thats not saying we are any better than someone who only attends home games / handful of games, but there is a definite improvement in atmosphere, probably because we are all together in 1 stand and want to go watching Wigan every week
Caboosegg
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by Caboosegg »

medlocke wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:21 pm
Charriots Offiah wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:06 pm The difference is that Josie’s comment is fact and not the fault of IFL and co.
Is it a fact that both Lockers and Tommy where given assistant coaching jobs without these jobs being advertised outside of the club to try and find the best person for each job?
While I know you like posting stuff like this for the conversation starter.

1. How do you know they didn't
2. Succession planning is a well used business plan.
3. Who was available as an assistant coach at the time Briers was leaving?
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medlocke
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by medlocke »

Caboosegg wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:32 am
medlocke wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:21 pm
Charriots Offiah wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:06 pm The difference is that Josie’s comment is fact and not the fault of IFL and co.
Is it a fact that both Lockers and Tommy where given assistant coaching jobs without these jobs being advertised outside of the club to try and find the best person for each job?
While I know you like posting stuff like this for the conversation starter.

1. How do you know they didn't
2. Succession planning is a well used business plan.
3. Who was available as an assistant coach at the time Briers was leaving?
1. We don't but if it had been advertised then surely it would have been mentioned on here by one of the in crowd.
2. Fair enough
3. We will never know, but if job had been advertised maybe one would have been found
Wes
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by Wes »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:55 pm Loyalty and sport are not cohesive bed partners

Loyalty is for relationships and emotional connections

Sports clubs build relationships and emotional connections all the time, loyalty can and does exist within sport

Sport is winning - that’s all it is - you cannot be loyal - being loyal will lose you matches and trophies

Leeds won for many years by retaining and staying loyal to core players and staff as have Saints, a lot of the back room staff have stayed the same for years yet both have any still win things.

Look at all the dominant teams in any sport loyalty is not a quality you should promote. I’m not saying you can be good to the people in the team but the team winning is the only thing any owner/coach should be loyal to period
As above really, Saints as an example have built a family culture and have stayed loyal to lots of staff and players, lots are still there from pre unsuccessful Cunningham years and yet they are now in a dominant period. You create a culture and we’ll being and people will want to be a part of it, you chop and change and sack people because winning is all that matters and people will steer clear due to lack of continuity and job security

You view sport as a cut throat win at all costs mentality, Salford want to win also but I would argue they are a business first and foremost who build solid relationships with players and staff alike that creates a culture where loyalty is rewarded, see Brodie Croft new deal.

Not every club can win the same league every year🤷
morley pie eater
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by morley pie eater »

Just to clarify my original comment about atmosphere. I meant to ot to include singing/cheering/general noise, but also the feeling from fans in the immediate vicinity.

I usually try and get a ticket in the east stand, but get what's available, high up if possible. The Wigan fans who surround me, I'd say 60% to 70% do more complaining than cheering. That creates an atmosphere that makes me prefer away games, where the Wigan fans seem to be more positive and enthusiastic.
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the pieman
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by the pieman »

morley pie eater wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:43 am Just to clarify my original comment about atmosphere. I meant to ot to include singing/cheering/general noise, but also the feeling from fans in the immediate vicinity.

I usually try and get a ticket in the east stand, but get what's available, high up if possible. The Wigan fans who surround me, I'd say 60% to 70% do more complaining than cheering. That creates an atmosphere that makes me prefer away games, where the Wigan fans seem to be more positive and enthusiastic.
fair point :)

i sat besides a fan who virtually never cheered for all the years i sat there. I think he needed Offiah to go the full length beating all 13 players twice over, before he would get up and appreciate the play, and then would probably say it was weak defence :) :)
cherry toffee
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by cherry toffee »

WF 1985 in response to your earlier post about loyalty and success not being good bedfellows I’d like to draw your attention to the period of the early 70 s to mid 80s and the most dominant period in the history of English footballs first division.Liverpool totally dominated football at that time under Shanklys reign and the system he set up, this was the “boot room” a pathway for former players and coaches to progress which several of them did, Paisley, Fagin, Evans and Dalgleish all followed in his footsteps to bring success. Now I’m not saying I’m right and your wrong just that we can all use examples to prove or disprove our views what matters is that we as Wigan fans have a successful team that finally gets the monkey that is
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EDINBURGH-WARRIOR
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Re: Ancient & Loyal

Post by EDINBURGH-WARRIOR »

the pieman wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:09 am
morley pie eater wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:43 am Just to clarify my original comment about atmosphere. I meant to ot to include singing/cheering/general noise, but also the feeling from fans in the immediate vicinity.

I usually try and get a ticket in the east stand, but get what's available, high up if possible. The Wigan fans who surround me, I'd say 60% to 70% do more complaining than cheering. That creates an atmosphere that makes me prefer away games, where the Wigan fans seem to be more positive and enthusiastic.
fair point :)

i sat besides a fan who virtually never cheered for all the years i sat there. I think he needed Offiah to go the full length beating all 13 players twice over, before he would get up and appreciate the play, and then would probably say it was weak defence :) :)
Season ticket holders in the West Stand with my son who can be respectfully vocal at times during the game . He has been asked to be less noisy more than once lol . I suspect it is in case he wakes someone up .
We prefer away games as well always more atmosphere.

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