Wigan Squad for Salford

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
fozzieskem
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by fozzieskem »

I agree with Shorrocks at loose,at present Smithees simply isn't offering much there he looked better when the switcharound happened but it does see Lam likes him I wonder if he will come back?
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Firestarter
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by Firestarter »

Shemtatupu wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:13 pm
Firestarter wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:33 pm
Barney841 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:30 pm

Careful WIGIAN.
We make Smithies the new scapegoat 🤦‍♂️
Theres much worse than smithies( he tries) look at byrne ellis and KPP( the most overrated playerin SL imo)
Who rates Ellis and Byrne? Moaning for moaning's sake
Whos moaning? Im saying it as i see it….some do rate them unless you havent been reading this forum for long
IF YOU STRIKE ME DOWN I WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE
Blackpool_Pie
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by Blackpool_Pie »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:17 am Our forwards are simply not good enough. Singo is shot, Cooper is a shadow of his former self. Ellis, KPP and Powell are simply not producing the goods. Mago is better in the stands.

Salford were better all over the park, a bit of brilliance and superior fitness got us home.
I don't understand how every side seem to have one or two big forwards who can always cause us problems when they have the ball, be it offloading ability, making yards post contact or managing to get quick ptbs. I don't remember us having a really good prop that does those things consistently for quite some time. Every forward we have can have their moments but they're few and far between. They seem very passive at times. We definitely need more grunt. It's not even down to size for me, I'd happily have Ben Flower pre grand final brain fart playing every week. He wasn't flash but he made the post contact yards and got a quick ptb and was always aggressive ball in hand
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by EagleEyePie »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:17 am Our forwards are simply not good enough. Singo is shot, Cooper is a shadow of his former self. Ellis, KPP and Powell are simply not producing the goods. Mago is better in the stands.

Salford were better all over the park, a bit of brilliance and superior fitness got us home.
The stats for Singleton and Cooper are pretty concerning. 28 metres from 8 carries for Singleton. Sam Powell made more metres than him from fewer carries. 15 metres from 4 carries from Cooper. Sure, he didn't play big minutes (that in itself is a bit of a concern) but this is a player who was our top metre making prop last year and could comfortably make over 100m in a game.

Singleton has this bizarre style where he seems to go on angled runs which only serve to take him straight into a big hit from a defender and he gets dominated. He'd make more metres if he just took two steps forward. It's so frustrating because there's no lack of effort there. He's making the carries and he's clearly trying to do something but I'm baffled by what that is.

Cooper I can only assume has an issue or is being managed for some reason. What he was providing last year compared to the start of this season are miles apart.

Ellis I think has been okay so far but he's rarely better than okay. He's fairly consistent with the metres he makes which are good but not spectacular. He hits the 60 metre mark most games, seems solid in defence but doesn't do much of note in attack. I'd be picking him over Singleton and Mago every week because of his consistency but I wish we could get a bit more from him.

I thought Pearce-Paul wasn't too bad and maybe if he's picked consistently he'll improve, although he seemed to carry the ball better and have more of an impact when he moved to centre. What's happened to the maverick player he was when he first came into the team and caused teams so many problems.
nathan_rugby
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by nathan_rugby »

EagleEyePie wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:04 am
Charriots Offiah wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:17 am Our forwards are simply not good enough. Singo is shot, Cooper is a shadow of his former self. Ellis, KPP and Powell are simply not producing the goods. Mago is better in the stands.

Salford were better all over the park, a bit of brilliance and superior fitness got us home.
The stats for Singleton and Cooper are pretty concerning. 28 metres from 8 carries for Singleton. Sam Powell made more metres than him from fewer carries. 15 metres from 4 carries from Cooper. Sure, he didn't play big minutes (that in itself is a bit of a concern) but this is a player who was our top metre making prop last year and could comfortably make over 100m in a game.

Singleton has this bizarre style where he seems to go on angled runs which only serve to take him straight into a big hit from a defender and he gets dominated. He'd make more metres if he just took two steps forward. It's so frustrating because there's no lack of effort there. He's making the carries and he's clearly trying to do something but I'm baffled by what that is.

Cooper I can only assume has an issue or is being managed for some reason. What he was providing last year compared to the start of this season are miles apart.

Ellis I think has been okay so far but he's rarely better than okay. He's fairly consistent with the metres he makes which are good but not spectacular. He hits the 60 metre mark most games, seems solid in defence but doesn't do much of note in attack. I'd be picking him over Singleton and Mago every week because of his consistency but I wish we could get a bit more from him.

I thought Pearce-Paul wasn't too bad and maybe if he's picked consistently he'll improve, although he seemed to carry the ball better and have more of an impact when he moved to centre. What's happened to the maverick player he was when he first came into the team and caused teams so many problems.
I think a big part of it must be the strategy the team are being instructed combined with Powells inability at 9.

We’ve seen games where our forwards dominate so we know it’s possible.

I know it’s a simplified way of explaining a more complex problem but our forwards need to do more of:
- Running in pairs
- Catching the ball on the gain line
- Hitting the ball at pace
- Running varied angles behind the POTB, between A and B and B and C defenders

Sounds simple but it really would make a difference but it needs Peet to instruct it, our 9 to be capable and our forwards to do it.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
nathan_rugby
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by nathan_rugby »

I am also wondering if any of it relates to a culture and style that Wane embedded when he was coach and it’s still lingering?

The first priority of his Props was defensive ability & effort and after that he favoured quick play if the balls rather than running in pairs, post contact meters etc. he did all of that in the hope of bunching the defence in the middle so we could ship it out.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
blindsideprop
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by blindsideprop »

lucky 13 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:11 am We have three similar players in Smith Cust and Powell. We are definitely in need of not just one of them taking on the line but also causing panic if they do. Cust from the little glimpses at 9 looks far more comfortable there and offers something we don't have, again he may also be better if he had a running partner playing at half with him. We are winning ugly with plenty improvement in us. Bevan King Jai Havard Smithies all worked hard. Ellis is solid but I feel he could take it up a level his little cameo taking the ball and passing shows he has more in the locker. Smiths still developing but needs a running half and let him play both sides. I still think Bevan 1 Jai 6 Smith 7 Cust 9 Ellis 13 causes teams problems how you deal with Jai and Bev running at you all game I'm not sure.
You are quite right Smith,Cust and Powell are all similar,no bloody good and are the spine of the team too.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

So from my point of view last night was interesting for two reasons

1 Powells extended stint away from 9 which peet said wasn’t planned but down to players not performing

2 Cust full removal

Ironically I thought Powell was having one of his better games - though still not great - O’Neill was better though and actually looked better than I had seen him last night

Cust I’m not sure if it’s Fitness or head but his form is way off and maybe he needs some time on the sidelines to get fit

Smith gets a bashing and I don’t know why personally he tries his best with what he’s got around him he needs more support and the lad has got talent

Farrell was the only forward to come out of that game with any glory

Smithies isn’t a 13 - he’s a 11/12

I go back to my previous point

A 6.5/10 team with 2 10/10 players
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by EagleEyePie »

nathan_rugby wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:10 am I am also wondering if any of it relates to a culture and style that Wane embedded when he was coach and it’s still lingering?

The first priority of his Props was defensive ability & effort and after that he favoured quick play if the balls rather than running in pairs, post contact meters etc. he did all of that in the hope of bunching the defence in the middle so we could ship it out.
I've been wondering about that having seen the stats over the last few weeks. We seem to play with the same number of middles as most teams, yet we rarely seem to have props making a high number of carries like other sides do. Under Wane we were pretty much bottom in terms of carries from our props each year (I wish I still had the stats, but I think it was usually us and Hull KR bottom of that list).

Whether that was managing workload and fatigue over the course of a season or a general philosophy on how the game should be played I'm not sure. The props often put in a better stint in big games but we also stuck to the style regardless of personnel so perhaps a mix of both.

I'm not sure how effective it is these days though. A few years ago I thought our lightweight pack did have an edge in terms of fitness and we could play the long game and tire out opposing teams by making them move more than they'd like. These days every team seems to have a couple of incredibly fit, hard working forwards that play long minutes but are also mobile and they have a consistent impact on the game. If we don't take much out of the middles we end up just throwing the ball from one side of the field to the other but going nowhere, something that seemed to happen more frequently towards the end of Wane's time in charge.

The best way to tie players up in the middle of the field is to have players down the middle who cause problems, be that strong ball carriers, offloaders or even props who can poke their nose between two defenders, find their front in most tackles and get quick play the ball (Ben Flower was massively underrated in this regard). I just don't think we really have much of a threat at the moment and it makes it harder to get the ball to our wide players.
Barney841
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Re: Wigan Squad for Salford

Post by Barney841 »

It would be interesting what our post contact metres are. I don’t think it would be good, the only player who made any or who springs to mind is Faz
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