Tonight's Game - Team for Thursday

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
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morley pie eater
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by morley pie eater »

WIGIAN wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:00 pm
morley pie eater wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:44 pm
WIGIAN wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:04 pm I never particularly like when people write "fans" as if the posters that have differing opinions aren't. As a fan who stood on Central Park in the 70s for second division rugby and now living in Cheshire and still going to games live I'd say I'm a FAN . I'm sorry that perhaps my opinion differs but isn't this why we have a forum. For me Morgan currently is a work horse without attacking threat the same thing Powell is slated for, yes that may come with maturity but say what you see and that's potential only for now and perhaps not in his current position.
Apologies if I upset or offended you. Looking back I could have just as well-written fans without the quotes. It appears as it came into my head, without considering how it may be interpreted. I'm sure you're a loyal fan of the club even if we have different opinions about Smithies or any other player.

What I find difficult to grasp with some "fans", or fans, is that they only ever seem to criticise players. (I'm certainly not including you in this.) Powell has been the target for a long time, but Partington, Byrne, Bibby, Leuluai and even Lockers have all been targets, along with many others, including successful coaches.

I'm not sure that this is true for other clubs at a comparable level. I've previously mentioned that my experience of sitting in various places in the East Stand and invariably hearing fans moaning and criticising, even at times when we're winning, actually means that I enjoy away games more than at the DW. Fortunately where I live is more convenient for getting to Hud, Cas, Wakey, Leeds and even Hull than to Wigan.
No problem I try and not get too emotional in my posts and hope that it doesn't come across that I've taken against this or that player, I've seen a few over the years . I do agree some forum criticism is targeted (the anti Peet thing was a particular jolt) I can only have an opinion on what I see and comment. Its early days we probably have the best back line in the comp for fair weather rugby plus maybe some recruited bulk and we'll be reet
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NICKYKISS
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by NICKYKISS »

Southern Softy wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:03 pm I'm a bit baffled as to why Ethan Havard should want to be 'more aggressive,' When forwards do this it's quite often cartoon posturing to make up for lack of quality. Would you like Faz to start start shouting and screaming for example? It wouldn't make him a better player.
Havard goes about his work very effectively and his talent is obvious. It's why the NRL is interested and why we should try and keep hold of him for as long as possible. His stats seem to be much the same as Smithies (except in conceding penalties) despite Havard being used in bursts as opposed to being on the pitch for the whole game.
They are both valuable players in their own way but one can be wound up and be a liability when that happens and unfair as it might be, it makes referees look out for them.
Aggression isn’t just squaring up to people or giving penalties away though, it’s running hard, trying to smash people in defence, scrapping for every inch, every loose ball etc and I think he can improve massively in those areas. He seems a laid back lad but even at his current level he’s a fine player but he will do himself a disservice if he doesn’t push for more in his career. I look at Smithies and those areas are his strengths but he hasn’t been blessed with the physical attributes Havard has (which is maybe why they’re different in terms of temperament and mentality).

It isn’t just you saying about Smithies discipline and I’ve had this with opposition fans who talk about him like he’s James Bentley in terms of being an idiot. The lad gave away 4 penalties in the whole of 2022! That is unbelievable! Zero reds and zero yellows. He hasn’t had as good a start to this season granted but I’m not concerned. No team can afford to have a pack full of ‘nice lads’ and you always need somebody to lead you in the effort areas. We had Micky Mac in the past, Saints have Knowles (who keeps getting banned by the way) and so on.
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NICKYKISS
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by NICKYKISS »

WIGIAN wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:33 pm
NICKYKISS wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:46 pm
josie andrews wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:39 pm

Me too & Havard, French,Field & Smith IMO 😊🥴
Smith has been getting some stick recently as well. He’s top alongside George Williams in terms of assists and looks lacking in creative support at times from his halfback partner and hooker. I think he’s doing fine given the circumstances. Havard is another I’d love to tie down for the long term. I think he needs to work on his aggression, as I’ve pointed out but ultimately if he was already an all round package, he’d probably be in the NRL by now.

I can get people going at more senior pros like Powell, Singleton, Isa, Cooper etc for our up and down start but the criticism of Smith and in particular Smithies is absolutely beyond me.
I guess that's why its a forum, for differing opinions if we all agreed how boring life would be :) I actually think Isa has been good so far this term for instance ...
Isa has been ok to be fair, he just needs to stop making handling errors when he’s taking a crash ball. I’d play him tomorrow and next week in intense games like Leigh and Saints.
WIGIAN
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by WIGIAN »

Absolutely agree
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Mike
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by Mike »

WIGIAN wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:35 pm I dont necessarily disagree regarding holding on to him, just dont see much past a great grafter for now, I'll hopefully be watching him captain the side in future years who knows its all about opinions. Just think 9 to 13 (Faz accepted) we offer little for teams to worry about going forward
Mick Cassidy was a great grafter, I think he was pretty good without having to be captain material or a devastating attacking threat.
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Exiled Wiganer
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by Exiled Wiganer »

NICKYKISS wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:29 pm
Exiled Wiganer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:18 pm I think it’s extremely harsh to argue that someone is watching the wrong sport when they make the perfectly reasonable observation that Havard seems less hot headed (in a good way) than Smithies.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable if somebody believes Havards temperament is something Smithies (or any forward trying to reach the top of the sport) should aspire to. The lads a fine player but is far too nice on the field, too passive and really needs to up that side of his game. If he doesn’t, we still have a class forward but if he does, we could have one of the best in the game. To basically suggest Smithies should be ‘more Havard’ in his approach is the absolute opposite to what we could do with happening.
You are expressing an opinion, but it is just that. Why dismiss someone’s counter position out of hand? It’s not as if either position is insane. It was rude and unnecessary, in my opinion.
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EagleEyePie
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by EagleEyePie »

NICKYKISS wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:38 pm
WIGIAN wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:33 pm I guess that's why its a forum, for differing opinions if we all agreed how boring life would be :) I actually think Isa has been good so far this term for instance ...
Isa has been ok to be fair, he just needs to stop making handling errors when he’s taking a crash ball. I’d play him tomorrow and next week in intense games like Leigh and Saints.
I'm 50/50 on whether Isa or KPP have been better for us this year but I don't think either could lay claim to being anything better than okay. KPP has had a bit of criticism but I'd be interested to know what people thought he did wrong against Salford. I thought it was a step in the right direction for him despite not being outstanding. If KPP has been poor I don't know how Isa could be judged as being good as neither has been able to play well enough to hold down that right side second row position.

Isa has similar problems but in different aspects. KPP has had issues with sliding defence and positioning but to be fair he doesn't miss many tackles overall. Isa is a bit more competent with defensive positioning but is more erratic and will miss more tackles or jump the line more often. KPP is stronger ball carrier but getting him to make them isn't always a given. Isa is always willing to make carries but is often less effective when doing so.

KPP needs a kick up the backside sometimes. Isa needs to calm down sometimes, as he does have a tendency to do daft things that get him penalised in big games, or he's a bit reckless and more of a danger to himself.

We'd have a pretty good back row forward if you combined Isa's effort with KPP's talent and physique. Playing either seems like a bit of a compromise at the moment. All I would say is a coach would probably lean towards effort so it wouldn't surprise me if Isa is back against Leigh. It depends whether KPP did what Matt Peet expected of him last week.
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Firestarter
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by Firestarter »

EagleEyePie wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:35 pm
NICKYKISS wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:38 pm
WIGIAN wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:33 pm I guess that's why its a forum, for differing opinions if we all agreed how boring life would be :) I actually think Isa has been good so far this term for instance ...
Isa has been ok to be fair, he just needs to stop making handling errors when he’s taking a crash ball. I’d play him tomorrow and next week in intense games like Leigh and Saints.
I'm 50/50 on whether Isa or KPP have been better for us this year but I don't think either could lay claim to being anything better than okay. KPP has had a bit of criticism but I'd be interested to know what people thought he did wrong against Salford. I thought it was a step in the right direction for him despite not being outstanding. If KPP has been poor I don't know how Isa could be judged as being good as neither has been able to play well enough to hold down that right side second row position.

Isa has similar problems but in different aspects. KPP has had issues with sliding defence and positioning but to be fair he doesn't miss many tackles overall. Isa is a bit more competent with defensive positioning but is more erratic and will miss more tackles or jump the line more often. KPP is stronger ball carrier but getting him to make them isn't always a given. Isa is always willing to make carries but is often less effective when doing so.

KPP needs a kick up the backside sometimes. Isa needs to calm down sometimes, as he does have a tendency to do daft things that get him penalised in big games, or he's a bit reckless and more of a danger to himself.

We'd have a pretty good back row forward if you combined Isa's effort with KPP's talent and physique. Playing either seems like a bit of a compromise at the moment. All I would say is a coach would probably lean towards effort so it wouldn't surprise me if Isa is back against Leigh. It depends whether KPP did what Matt Peet expected of him last week.
I agree but i was laughed at when i said willie would be some player with size etc….. suppose it would be boring if we all agreed with each other
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Charriots Offiah
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by Charriots Offiah »

Firestarter wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:50 pm
EagleEyePie wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:35 pm
NICKYKISS wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:38 pm

Isa has been ok to be fair, he just needs to stop making handling errors when he’s taking a crash ball. I’d play him tomorrow and next week in intense games like Leigh and Saints.
I'm 50/50 on whether Isa or KPP have been better for us this year but I don't think either could lay claim to being anything better than okay. KPP has had a bit of criticism but I'd be interested to know what people thought he did wrong against Salford. I thought it was a step in the right direction for him despite not being outstanding. If KPP has been poor I don't know how Isa could be judged as being good as neither has been able to play well enough to hold down that right side second row position.

Isa has similar problems but in different aspects. KPP has had issues with sliding defence and positioning but to be fair he doesn't miss many tackles overall. Isa is a bit more competent with defensive positioning but is more erratic and will miss more tackles or jump the line more often. KPP is stronger ball carrier but getting him to make them isn't always a given. Isa is always willing to make carries but is often less effective when doing so.

KPP needs a kick up the backside sometimes. Isa needs to calm down sometimes, as he does have a tendency to do daft things that get him penalised in big games, or he's a bit reckless and more of a danger to himself.

We'd have a pretty good back row forward if you combined Isa's effort with KPP's talent and physique. Playing either seems like a bit of a compromise at the moment. All I would say is a coach would probably lean towards effort so it wouldn't surprise me if Isa is back against Leigh. It depends whether KPP did what Matt Peet expected of him last week.
I agree but i was laughed at when i said willie would be some player with size etc….. suppose it would be boring if we all agreed with each other
I agree with you. The problem is that Isa is not going to get any better, or rip up trees. On the other hand KPP should be showing signs of improvement and, with his size, breaking the line yet he shows no sign of either. On a couple of occasions, last week, he slowed when he received the ball rather than trying to punch through the defence. He should be hurting people!
fozzieskem
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Re: Team for thursday

Post by fozzieskem »

Smithees to me a bit of an enigma he’s stood still and I’m not sure at the moment 13 is getting the best out of him but I feel he’s one of those players that’ll get better as they get older so plenty of time for him to blossom out into wherever suits him best.
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