Scapegoats through the years

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Euclid
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Scapegoats through the years

Post by Euclid »

Reading about current lead scapegoat Mr Powell and runner up Mr Smith made me think about the nature of scapegoating and previous players who’ve experienced it.
Every player gets criticised, but scapegoating seems to involve constantly repeated criticism of the same things often with a personal edge. Often there does not seem to be a lot of logic involved.
Thinking back to an era before forums, you could detect bad feeling only during the game, expressed by fans.
My first experience of this was Colin Tyrer, who attracted boos over the time he took over goal kicks, and complaints that he was not good enough in defence. The fact that he was scoring most of Wigan’s points was ignored.
Next came Geoff Fletcher, a man ahead of his time. His offloads and passes missing out players in the line confused the opposition and his own team mates too, and I often was surrounded by booing Wiganers when his attempts at creativity went awry.

Moving on, I felt that Matty Johns got a lot of unfair criticism in his brief time at the club; perhaps another player who was a bit too quick thinking for some of his team mates.

I must give an honourable mention to Kevin Brown. I remember him being fiercely criticised on the first half of his debut, then coming on in the 2nd half and scoring a hat trick (think it was his debut, but could be wrong). Once again the critics went after him relentlessly, repeating the same complaints tirelessly. By now I think social media was getting into its stride, so the armchair critics were able to express their opinions more easily.

I would be very interested to hear of any other Wigan players that forum members feel were scapegoated over the years, or failed to to impress fans despite putting in good work for the team.

Of course, illogical criticism is not restricted to Wigan fans, nor even Rugby League fans as a whole, or sports fans generally for that matter, but I get the feeling that as a group, we are particularly skilled at it.
nathan_rugby
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by nathan_rugby »

Matty Smith used to get a lot and I think it was mostly from people who didn’t really understand rugby and couldn’t see the value he added and the job he did for us.

Never been replaced in my opinion and the Smith who we had would be an incredible player to have right now when you look at the lack of leadership and experience in general & the pivot positions.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
josie andrews
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by josie andrews »

I always thought David Hodgson got criticised especially after he broke his leg in the first game of the season at home v Widnes.

It was a very bad break & he was out for the rest of the season. When he did come back the following year you could see he was scared of re injury to the leg & seemed reluctant to run or tackle & he didn’t have any confidence in himself.

Always thought Matty Smith was criticised al lot but the number of games he won us with last minute drop goals etc. He organised very well IMO. Was a great leader on the pitch.
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medlocke
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by medlocke »

Can't think of any
Brennox7
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by Brennox7 »

Dennis Moran and Danny Orr got hammered by fans when they played.

Gavin Clinch as well. All good players before we signed them but struggled in poor sides
Flash
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by Flash »

medlocke wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:04 pm Can't think of any
I can think of least one by your good self Meds! If you need a clue, it begins with 'L' and ends with 'ockers'.... :D
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

What a load of utter tripe - complete and utter b***cks post and Nathans comment re people not understanding Smiths value again utter tripe and insulting to members of the forum most of whom have played the game and been around it long enough to call a spade a spade.

Firstly this ludicrous point

but scapegoating seems to involve constantly repeated criticism of the same things often with a personal edge. Often there does not seem to be a lot of logic involved.

I will give you £100 for every comment you can find that criticizes Powell as a person - because im almost certain you will not find a single 1, you may be trying to include in that the idea of him being the blue eye'd boy but remember thats a shot at the Wigan upper management for having favorites not a shot at Powell.

I see this comment over and over again and it is fictional, its put there because people cant argue back that Powell is a very good player, so instead people change the argument to look like others are just being mean, instead of what they are actually doing and pointing out the obvious

then there is this

Of course, illogical criticism

Except it isnt is it, its very logical - in fact people would do provide criticism do it with examples and opinions, whats illogical is to make up stuff (its personal) or to refute a criticism of someones's playing ability by saying things like "well coaches pick him" but not backing it up with any insight into why.

oh and the comedy continues from Nathan, ah yes Matty Smith - the slowest halfback in history who while being a decent all round player was never a stand out player and always a position that could of been improved. I mean whn he left Wigan clubs were queuing up for the mercurial talent werent they, nope just his mate at st helens who he was a large part of getting the sack in the whole "jobs for the boys" - but surely he went onto bigger and better things then being such a talent, no he bounced around after failing to hold down a position at Catalan then onto widnes - and before people come at me with age arguements he was 29 when he left for saints, George williams is 28. in fact in the 6 years he played after leaving he scored a grand total of 3 tries.

Im sick of posters claiming that if a player gets criticism its because they know nothing or that its a personal vendetta. There is good reason why many people hold a particular view on players, its not because they hate them or hate wigan - its because its more often than not true. Very rarely does a player get overwhelmingly negative comments on their playing ability (both powell and smith was never a bad personal comment) and it not have truth in it.

I mean it even says in the opening to this frankly absurd thread "constantly repeated criticism" well guess what sunshine there is a reason for that

If its 35 degrees outside - most people will tell you its hot all day - they wont half way through the day say its cold, and it a player is slower than post office queue this year, guess what chances are he will be slow next yea and the year after - so if the same things are true expect the same things to be said

Ill end with this since Powell is simply a scapegoat and we are all so mean to such a valuable player who is carrying Wigan (yes im being aloof because its the counter to your claims of personal attacks)

What other team in Superleauge does Powell make the starting 13??
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
Wintergreen
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by Wintergreen »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:32 pm What a load of utter tripe - complete and utter b***cks post and Nathans comment re people not understanding Smiths value again utter tripe and insulting to members of the forum most of whom have played the game and been around it long enough to call a spade a spade.

Firstly this ludicrous point

but scapegoating seems to involve constantly repeated criticism of the same things often with a personal edge. Often there does not seem to be a lot of logic involved.

I will give you £100 for every comment you can find that criticizes Powell as a person - because im almost certain you will not find a single 1, you may be trying to include in that the idea of him being the blue eye'd boy but remember thats a shot at the Wigan upper management for having favorites not a shot at Powell.

I see this comment over and over again and it is fictional, its put there because people cant argue back that Powell is a very good player, so instead people change the argument to look like others are just being mean, instead of what they are actually doing and pointing out the obvious

then there is this

Of course, illogical criticism

Except it isnt is it, its very logical - in fact people would do provide criticism do it with examples and opinions, whats illogical is to make up stuff (its personal) or to refute a criticism of someones's playing ability by saying things like "well coaches pick him" but not backing it up with any insight into why.

oh and the comedy continues from Nathan, ah yes Matty Smith - the slowest halfback in history who while being a decent all round player was never a stand out player and always a position that could of been improved. I mean whn he left Wigan clubs were queuing up for the mercurial talent werent they, nope just his mate at st helens who he was a large part of getting the sack in the whole "jobs for the boys" - but surely he went onto bigger and better things then being such a talent, no he bounced around after failing to hold down a position at Catalan then onto widnes - and before people come at me with age arguements he was 29 when he left for saints, George williams is 28. in fact in the 6 years he played after leaving he scored a grand total of 3 tries.

Im sick of posters claiming that if a player gets criticism its because they know nothing or that its a personal vendetta. There is good reason why many people hold a particular view on players, its not because they hate them or hate wigan - its because its more often than not true. Very rarely does a player get overwhelmingly negative comments on their playing ability (both powell and smith was never a bad personal comment) and it not have truth in it.

I mean it even says in the opening to this frankly absurd thread "constantly repeated criticism" well guess what sunshine there is a reason for that

If its 35 degrees outside - most people will tell you its hot all day - they wont half way through the day say its cold, and it a player is slower than post office queue this year, guess what chances are he will be slow next yea and the year after - so if the same things are true expect the same things to be said

Ill end with this since Powell is simply a scapegoat and we are all so mean to such a valuable player who is carrying Wigan (yes im being aloof because its the counter to your claims of personal attacks)

What other team in Superleauge does Powell make the starting 13??
I have to agree.

Some on here think that being a "good" fan means never criticising the team or expressing negative views about a player.

Utter tripe.
keptinthedarkfans
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by keptinthedarkfans »

Don't know about scapegoat you will always get
different views on players when I was a young lad a section of fans where arguing about 3 different players not being good enough my friend thought it quite funny and said to me I bet I can go round ground and ask who is not good enough to be playing for wigan by time I get back bet we wouldn't have a team. He didn't get half way round. Didn't not only have no team we had no one to run it neither.
medlocke
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Re: Scapegoats through the years

Post by medlocke »

Flash wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:31 pm
medlocke wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:04 pm Can't think of any
I can think of least one by your good self Meds! If you need a clue, it begins with 'L' and ends with 'ockers'.... :D
8-) :lol: :lol: :lol:

I never booed him though or chastised him on a personal level, just knew he was crap :D
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