Cats v Wigan

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
doc
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by doc »

According to SL stats King missed 9 tackles, Field 3, Smithies 2, Nsemba 2, and Miski 1.

On the other side of the field Smith 3, Farrell 2, Wardle 1 and Marshall 1.

Shows how much we miss Isa in at right second row to cover those outside him.

Ellis and Byrne put a good shift in and made yards but not to the same extent as the Catalans forwards. We really need Havard and Singleton back quick.
josie andrews
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by josie andrews »

medlocke wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:07 pm Bollocks to it, nobody is getting what I'm trying to as usual, I am not comparing standards of players, salary cap etc or if NRL is better than SL, I am comparing how in SL 22/23 year olds are seen as prospects with possibilities yet in the NRL and over here in the past pre SL players of the same age have/had already established themselves, not rocket science, no agenda, not trolling, just an observation, the end :evil:
It’s an altogether different sport now as to when it was played in the past Meds.

Even Shaun Edwards commented on it the other night, saying maybe a handful of British players in his era would make it in todays SL because of the speed of the game & the size of the players etc. He even commented on Martin Offiah who rarely, if ever got tackled, cos a winger stayed on the wing! None of this taking the ball up the middle like they, the centres & backs do now.

But then of course there was his speed which got him from one side of the pitch to the other, similar to Field, French & Marshall when they get a free rein 😊

The forwards here are a lot smaller & lighter than in the past. My Dad was 17-18 stone when he played & his position was hooker. Do you think the golden child Roby is anywhere near that weight & would he be able to ‘scoot’ the way he does if he was heavier?

Also there is the "duty of care" these days when in the past, like Edwards said, he carried on playing with a broken cheek bone & a fractured eye socket of which he couldn’t see out of that eye for the rest of the game as it was filled with blood.

Andy Farrell with the broken nose that had to be strapped up across his face & head, even John Wilkin played the same. That would never be allowed in this day & age.

So the game today is completely different today for some to to detriment of the sport to others for the better to protect our players health & welfare.
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But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
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Caboosegg
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Caboosegg »

On Nsemba 2 missed tackles its the points where he wasn't even attempting that was my issue. One of catalans tries was a walk in through a gap between Nsemba and King
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Wintergreen
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Wintergreen »

josie andrews wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:41 pm
medlocke wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:07 pm Bollocks to it, nobody is getting what I'm trying to as usual, I am not comparing standards of players, salary cap etc or if NRL is better than SL, I am comparing how in SL 22/23 year olds are seen as prospects with possibilities yet in the NRL and over here in the past pre SL players of the same age have/had already established themselves, not rocket science, no agenda, not trolling, just an observation, the end :evil:
It’s an altogether different sport now as to when it was played in the past Meds.

Even Shaun Edwards commented on it the other night, saying maybe a handful of British players in his era would make it in todays SL because of the speed of the game & the size of the players etc. He even commented on Martin Offiah who rarely, if ever got tackled, cos a winger stayed on the wing! None of this taking the ball up the middle like they, the centres & backs do now.

But then of course there was his speed which got him from one side of the pitch to the other, similar to Field, French & Marshall when they get a free rein 😊

The forwards here are a lot smaller & lighter than in the past. My Dad was 17-18 stone when he played & his position was hooker. Do you think the golden child Roby is anywhere near that weight & would he be able to ‘scoot’ the way he does if he was heavier?

Also there is the "duty of care" these days when in the past, like Edwards said, he carried on playing with a broken cheek bone & a fractured eye socket of which he couldn’t see out of that eye for the rest of the game as it was filled with blood.

Andy Farrell with the broken nose that had to be strapped up across his face & head, even John Wilkin played the same. That would never be allowed in this day & age.

So the game today is completely different today for some to to detriment of the sport to others for the better to protect our players health & welfare.
Are they heck!

They certainly are carrying less bodyfat than previous forwards, but in terms of strength they would wipe the floor with most post 1990 and anyone pre that date!

But to Med's point, I agree with him. At the risk of stating the blatantly obvious, 23 is not 17. By this age the top players have already proven their worth (irrespective of the general level of the game).
morley pie eater
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by morley pie eater »

Southern Softy wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:51 am Not a whole lot of point banging on about how bad we were - it was obvious to everyone. Interesting how Cats never considered attacking us down the left - shows how bad our right side was but proof that we can do some things right.
Cats attacked us like Leeds in the league fixture and we couldn't cope so, unless we do something, others will do the same.
Time to put Thornley in at right centre or wing for defensive purposes or (and I'm not sure I believe I'm saying this) - put him in at second-row to bolster that right flank.
If we are going to play Field in the halves, we have to understand that defensively, he's not going to offer much. Different at full-back where his speed and anticipation make him a good player.
Maybe for the Cup game (which looks like our best chance for silverware) we go back for one time only to French on the wing - Field at full-back and Shorrocks in the halves. We may lose our attacking skills but if we are conceding 40-odd points in an hour, attacking skills become unimportant.
Agree re Field. Defensively he's a liability at 6.
The problem with our right-edge defence has also surfaced again. It was very poor in our first few games, but we patched it up when Big Willie came in. I'm not saying it's down to him alone, but we can largely get away with it when we have some good defenders and leadership in the mix. They cover for each other and some probably need telling or reminding throughout the game. Yesterday we had Nsemba, Field, King, Miski, plus Bevan covering across. Any opposition coach's dream come true!
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Charriots Offiah
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Charriots Offiah »

medlocke wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:07 pm Bollocks to it, nobody is getting what I'm trying to as usual, I am not comparing standards of players, salary cap etc or if NRL is better than SL, I am comparing how in SL 22/23 year olds are seen as prospects with possibilities yet in the NRL and over here in the past pre SL players of the same age have/had already established themselves, not rocket science, no agenda, not trolling, just an observation, the end :evil:
If you’re good enough you are old enough. The problem lies in the forwards though, they are incapable of getting us in the right position on the field to unleash our backs. We have been unlucky with injuries to Cooper and Havard but the pack needs surgery. Hopefully, the power’s that be understand that and will recruit accordingly. We definitely need a mid season signing.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Charriots Offiah »

Firestarter wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:34 pm
medlocke wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:31 pm
Caboosegg wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:26 pm

we have Tommy and Lockers.
And this is why we are shite
Unfortunately there lies the problem imo.Not matty
Lockers is the defensive coach so he has a lot of work to do.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Charriots Offiah »

morley pie eater wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:23 pm
medlocke wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:45 pm
morley pie eater wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:34 pm • Harry Smith is still a young lad with enormous possibilities.
Harry Smith is 23, by the time Shaun Edwards was 23 he'd been playing first team rugby for several years, was a GB Lion and had played 12 matches for Balmain. the time is over for possibilities, he should be delivering the goods on a regular basis by now, if not then it is time to move on
The question I was addressing was "What can we do to get the best out of Smith?", not "Is he as good as Edwards?"

If you replaced Smith with a 23-year-old Edwards in that team, I doubt if we'd have won.

And if we'd moved everyone on that you criticised, we'd have no team at all - oh sorry, forgot about your list of names from the NRL, all of whom are earning more than we could pay them, and wouldn't come anyway. A bit like a Latics fan saying "We should sign Messi, Harland, Gündogan and de Bruyne"!
I agree Morley an Edwards or a Greg would not have won us that game but, I can guarantee that, we would have gone down fighting. We talk about the culture at the club and, in my view, whilst it is nice to read/hear about the community etc. we lack that ruthless streak which is required in elite sport. The coaches and players need to adopt a win at all costs mentality, next week and the cup tie against Wire will show what we are made of. The club needs to make some tough decisions, a number of players need releasing and replacements brought in if we are to become top dogs.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Charriots Offiah »

morley pie eater wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:20 pm
Southern Softy wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:51 am Not a whole lot of point banging on about how bad we were - it was obvious to everyone. Interesting how Cats never considered attacking us down the left - shows how bad our right side was but proof that we can do some things right.
Cats attacked us like Leeds in the league fixture and we couldn't cope so, unless we do something, others will do the same.
Time to put Thornley in at right centre or wing for defensive purposes or (and I'm not sure I believe I'm saying this) - put him in at second-row to bolster that right flank.
If we are going to play Field in the halves, we have to understand that defensively, he's not going to offer much. Different at full-back where his speed and anticipation make him a good player.
Maybe for the Cup game (which looks like our best chance for silverware) we go back for one time only to French on the wing - Field at full-back and Shorrocks in the halves. We may lose our attacking skills but if we are conceding 40-odd points in an hour, attacking skills become unimportant.
Agree re Field. Defensively he's a liability at 6.
The problem with our right-edge defence has also surfaced again. It was very poor in our first few games, but we patched it up when Big Willie came in. I'm not saying it's down to him alone, but we can largely get away with it when we have some good defenders and leadership in the mix. They cover for each other and some probably need telling or reminding throughout the game. Yesterday we had Nsemba, Field, King, Miski, plus Bevan covering across. Any opposition coach's dream come true!
We should play Shorrocks out wide and put Smithies in the middle.

We are not solving problems by moving the team around in order to deal with injuries.
Charriots Offiah
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Re: Cats v Wigan

Post by Charriots Offiah »

Field and French. Peet is trying to accommodate both in the team but it is clearly not working. In my view, they are very similar players and in a perfect world we should not have two overseas players competing for the same spot in the team, irrespective of how good they both are. The only solution is to put Bevan back on the wing or, and this is controversial, let one of them leave.
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