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Caboosegg wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:28 pm

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:11 pm

Caboosegg wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 11:17 am Some people may not agree but let him go then, we need a major rebuild and although i would love gildart to be a long term Wigan player is it worth fighting to keep him if a year later he wants to just run off to the NRL anyway.

Rebuild needed next year, let those that want to run off to the NRL go and use the money to build the team we need.

I hear Gelling is available

With that attitude, what do we do about the next phase of youngsters that do the same?

Remove the rot and they try and develop a culture where players want to play for Wigan. This current group don't.

In the press release Edwards said that players need to want to play for the shirt, so the club must be aware a lot don't.

Yes we will always lose players to the NRL but when you have the main part of your team openly saying they are basically just using wigan as a stepping stone.

Its not just the current lot. We have lost Tomkins, Tomkins, Mossop, Sarginson, Luleuai and Burgess in the last 5 years also.

Some, one or all of the below must be true.

1 - Wigan have the best players which is why NRL/Union have come knocking more than other clubs

2 - Something to do with the Club or Culture or Owners is resulting in players wanting to move or thinking its a good idea to move.

3 - Our youth set-up is far superior to other clubs which is why our youngsters seem to get scouted more often than others.

4 - We propell youngers into our team which turns them into stars at an earlier day resulting in them getting scouted. Whether thats because of good production, injuries, poor succession planning or penny pinching.

Leeds and Saints have both had very dominating periods in the last 15 years and seem to have kept hold of their players at lot better than us. I think Leeds dominance was down to their ability to keep hold of McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, JJB, Ablet, Hall etc for so long. Even Senior, Watkins, Webb, Leuluia, Peacock all played for a long period of time. Was it a sign of the times or pure luck?

Green Machine wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 pm Can’t see him getting much game time, he’s not going to oust either Croker or Cotric unless they’re moving on.

Agreed, and I'd say the same about Williams and Jack Wighton.

moto748 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 7:56 pm

Green Machine wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 pm Can’t see him getting much game time, he’s not going to oust either Croker or Cotric unless they’re moving on.

Agreed, and I'd say the same about Williams and Jack Wighton.

cotric is only covering at centre while leilua( dont know correct spelling) is out....... hes a decent winger though

Leeds is the most recent dominant team whos youth system was comparable to ours. They had an advantage in the early stages of thn.e SL cap being more and later equal to NRL.
You will still lose players they Lost Ellis at his prime to NRL probabley the best British forward at the time (lifestyle choice?) Luke Burgess also. They lost Chev Walker to Union again he was around the GB team at the time Calderwood to us, Smith went to Union after MOM in a GF and so on. They also released plenty of youth players who have gone on to have decent SL careers.
The biggest factor though is they was competing at an advantagous to equal playing feild and the name of Leeds does not carry the same as Wigan down under.

lucky 13 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:23 pm Leeds is the most recent dominant team whos youth system was comparable to ours. They had an advantage in the early stages of thn.e SL cap being more and later equal to NRL.
You will still lose players they Lost Ellis at his prime to NRL probabley the best British forward at the time (lifestyle choice?) Luke Burgess also. They lost Chev Walker to Union again he was around the GB team at the time Calderwood to us, Smith went to Union after MOM in a GF and so on. They also released plenty of youth players who have gone on to have decent SL careers.
The biggest factor though is they was competing at an advantagous to equal playing feild and the name of Leeds does not carry the same as Wigan down under.

Which youth players have gone on to have good SL careers?

Leeds managed to keep hold of Senior, Burrow, McGuire, Sinfield, Peacock, JJB, Ablett and Hall for a number of years. Keeping that spine meant they could let other people come and go without causing too much effect. From memory they also had Webb for a while and also Kylie Leuleui.

Ben Jones Bishop
Jodie Broughton
Nick Scruton
Ian Kirke
Mc Shane
Luke Gail
Ashley Gibson
Kyle Amour
Liam Hood
Give me a bit longer sure older names will crop up.
This is a rough comparison to our team but they was earlier. Leeds accademy was bringing good players through. Difference they could get good money in SL to match or better NRL.

Jordan Tamdsey
J Pitts
Gareth Carvell
Peter Fox ...

Gareth Raynor.... I could go On (if not already) but sure I have seen most of them.play against us for Leeds at youth level as I do watch the games . You get my jist sure I can name three times more from Wigans youth but they are my team.

Just on a add on Lockers, Pat Richards, Micky Mac, Faz all have done/did great service and I would have loved to see both Tomkins and the likes of Bateman stay with us. Maybe some of thats down to us maybe cap but if Canberra had waved double the money under the likes of that Leeds team more may have left.

lucky 13 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:21 pm Jordan Tamdsey
J Pitts
Gareth Carvell
Peter Fox ...

most released for being not good enough

pedro wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 10:44 pm

lucky 13 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:21 pm Jordan Tamdsey
J Pitts
Gareth Carvell
Peter Fox ...

most released for being not good enough

Yes which was my point. Leeds could hang on to Maguire, Burrow, Hall and Sinfield which gave them a settled side. For ne look at Lockers/Sinfield Tomkins/Burrowv,Williams/Maguire Burgess/ Hall and Bateman/Peacock.
For me Lockers along with the Leeds players is a generation older and they all played SL at their prime any SL player now will be under NRL pressure. They produced many more SL players but not of that calibre.they released them what we see at Wigan now is a fear to release because we are loseing our best to the NRL and first team players with higher demands come contract time ie Willuams marquee, Gildart and so on.
Im proud of our youth but in these times I do wonder if you can work it along side a cap thats much less than the NRL without seeing whats happening now ie we are a feeder club? Sinfield,Maguire,Hall,JJB Peacock,Burrow If they had come through now with the NRL cap so high is it possible that Leeds may have lost one or two to NRL? If one goes and loves it lyfestyle, more may follow if you add big contracts and a close group of mates you see what we are seeing now at Wigan.
Ps I dont like it one bit I have never been more disalusioned about us since we lost central park.