new prop

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josie andrews
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Re: new prop

Post by josie andrews »

First Try Tickle wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:09 pm Last season Isa wasn't getting a look in, he wasn't even making the squad. If we are now looking at him as back-up then we are going backwards. Partington is much better than Isa.
Yes & younger too so still time to develop into a prop, if the average of development to be in your prime is 27. We have lost a good Wigan lad there IMO!
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NICKYKISS
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Re: new prop

Post by NICKYKISS »

We’ve certainly stripped some depth out of the squad and that’s fine if you then keep a really strong first 20 or so but Bateman looks a big spanner in that and is next to impossible to replace without stripping more depth out by paying up an overseas player.

Something is off with how we manage our salary cap compared to others. I suspect it’s not us mismanaging it and more that some clubs find ways around it. You’ve got Saints losing nobody they want to keep and claiming nobody has asked for marquee money, when they have rep players coming out of their ears. I also had a skim over Huddersfield’s squad earlier and counted up 28 players who I’d class as bonafide first teamers (and that didn’t include Halsall, Jack Bibby and a few other youngsters). You can spend £2.1m on your top 25, so I’m stumped. Those 28 players splitting £2.1 alone would mean an average salary of £75,000 each. Safe to says guys like Lolohea, McGillvary, Fages, Marsters, Connor and a few others are on more, so the rest are going to have to be on an average salary well under £75k. It just does stack up IMO.
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lucky 13
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Re: new prop

Post by lucky 13 »

Not so sure our squad doesn't stack up
Field Bev King Wardle Marshy Cust Smith
Byrne Powel Cooper Batty Faz Smithies
Is as strong as most with probably the best back line potentially in SL.
After the 13 you then have Havard Singo KPP Ellis Mago Thornley Isa Miski O'niel Shorrocks before you reach quite a back up of youth at different stages and potential. Big season for Silva Hanley to kick on then your looking at quite a few other young lads. I would say this year the balance is better but injuries may play a part in how that plays out.
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NICKYKISS
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Re: new prop

Post by NICKYKISS »

lucky 13 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:05 pm Not so sure our squad doesn't stack up
Field Bev King Wardle Marshy Cust Smith
Byrne Powel Cooper Batty Faz Smithies
Is as strong as most with probably the best back line potentially in SL.
After the 13 you then have Havard Singo KPP Ellis Mago Thornley Isa Miski O'niel Shorrocks before you reach quite a back up of youth at different stages and potential. Big season for Silva Hanley to kick on then your looking at quite a few other young lads. I would say this year the balance is better but injuries may play a part in how that plays out.
The first 17 is very good and there is some depth outside of that (just not as much as in years gone by) but it’s not got 28+ players with 10+ games of Superleague like Huddersfield have got and it’s not got the amount of what I’d say would be real high earners that Saints have (but claim not to).

That’s not having a go at our squad or the management either, it’s more just being suspicious of how those 2 clubs in particular manage it.
southportcdm
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Re: new prop

Post by southportcdm »

Lucky 13, I like your positivity but I'm slightly more cynical in nature and would look at the squad like this - you counted Bateman and he's going to leave. You're also hopeful that Hanley and Silva will develop and I'm confident that they won't. If I'm correct, we'll struggle as soon as we start picking up injuries. Our backline does look much better if the two new centres reach their potential rather than last season's form. Our props will still not match saints unless Mago and Ellis improve. We have less proven backup at halfback (for when Cust get injured) than we had last year. Another factor that nobody has mentioned yet is the coaching staff. Will we miss Briers and will Peet have a greater or lesser impact in his second year? If all goes well, we replace Bateman, the props improve and the younger players make the progress that we expect, we'll have a better side than last season, but it could easily go the other way. I really hope you're correct and I'm being too pessimistic.
fozzieskem
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Re: new prop

Post by fozzieskem »

Silva is at best a long shot,one worth a punt on but I'm not expecting miracles from him as for Hanley I'm not sure he has the "omph" to push on and aim a first team spot

We shall see.
nathan_rugby
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Re: new prop

Post by nathan_rugby »

southportcdm wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:00 pm Lucky 13, I like your positivity but I'm slightly more cynical in nature and would look at the squad like this - you counted Bateman and he's going to leave. You're also hopeful that Hanley and Silva will develop and I'm confident that they won't. If I'm correct, we'll struggle as soon as we start picking up injuries. Our backline does look much better if the two new centres reach their potential rather than last season's form. Our props will still not match saints unless Mago and Ellis improve. We have less proven backup at halfback (for when Cust get injured) than we had last year. Another factor that nobody has mentioned yet is the coaching staff. Will we miss Briers and will Peet have a greater or lesser impact in his second year? If all goes well, we replace Bateman, the props improve and the younger players make the progress that we expect, we'll have a better side than last season, but it could easily go the other way. I really hope you're correct and I'm being too pessimistic.
Why are you confident Silva won’t develop?
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southportcdm
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Re: new prop

Post by southportcdm »

Nathan, I'd love to see him do well but I saw him in a couple of games and felt that he was well behind some of our younger props. Also heard rumours (only) that the club were thinking of letting him go. Having said that, given his background and relative late start in RL perhaps he deserves more time. Having chatted to him a couple of times too, he's not very big.
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lucky 13
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Re: new prop

Post by lucky 13 »

I wasn't saying I thought Silva or Hanley would develop but it's probably getting to make or break time especially for Hanley who must have that 10 game threshold under his belt. Silva has a lot of traffic in front of him to make a place his own so his level would need to rise at a pace. I look at both back lines at Saints and Giants and I'm not blown away.
Obviously saints is proven but it also has no depth at half with a young lad returning from serious injury. I would say Thornley and Miski are as good as any back up they have.
O'niel, Cust are big players for us and how they push on will have big impacts on how we go.
Bateman is an obvious question mark and who comes in and leaves at the side of him to give us quota space is a huge question mark.
I looked at that Huddersfield team and while they have a decent squad I'm not sure on the quality outside of 21 players and even in that 21 I'm not blown by the likes of Conner, Bibby and Goulding. While Cudjoe Mgilvrey have been good they are not the players of a few years back Greenwood Jones also seem to not have that impact now. Trout, English, Will Smith, Wilson and Russell are also question mark players for different reasons. Even Senior I would class as solid. Lolohea Farge Hill Mqueen Yates are quality.
Just as an example if I could pick a player to put in our starting 13 I'm struggling Hill is most likely.
I think we get to 24 players before we are digging into untried players
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Wandering Warrior
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Re: new prop

Post by Wandering Warrior »

fozzieskem wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:46 pm Silva is at best a long shot,one worth a punt on but I'm not expecting miracles from him as for Hanley I'm not sure he has the "omph" to push on and aim a first team spot

We shall see.
Sadly I think Hanley would have broke through before now, although I do recognise his age.
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