salary cap

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joeb
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salary cap

Post by joeb » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:23 pm

i think it is about time that the chairmen of our clubs challenged this salary cap in the courts. i am all for it in principle but with the money wigan pump in to the junior set up we have no chance, other clubs dont seem to spend as much as wigan do,then we have to let them go because of salary cap. every team in super leauge has a wiganer in it.
it needs challenging, after all its only same as the bosman in football

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adrenalinxx
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Re: salary cap

Post by adrenalinxx » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:38 pm

joeb posted:
i think it is about time that the chairmen of our clubs challenged this salary cap in the courts. i am all for it in principle but with the money wigan pump in to the junior set up we have no chance, other clubs dont seem to spend as much as wigan do,then we have to let them go because of salary cap. every team in super leauge has a wiganer in it.
it needs challenging, after all its only same as the bosman in football
The Bosman ruling allows football players to move to other clubs once their contract is up (also adopted by other sports) don't really see its similarity to the salary cap.

Although Wigan could challenge the salary cap in the courts for a number of reasons, it is probably unlikely that the courts would do anything because Wigan have agreed to rules set out by the RFL and the same goes for every clubs. The only way around it would be to split from the RFL and form another league but I can't see that happening.

Wigan don't actually put as much money into the academy as you might think but the fact is they have more money than other clubs, if the salary cap was challenge then it just be a step backwards for all the clubs, the idea of the cap is to bring all clubs closer together in terms of performance and if need be share the players around.

In the end it is Wigan choice if they releases the youth player it is not like other clubs are taking them illegally. I think it is more bad player management on Wigan's part rather than unfair policies from the RFL.

It does seem unfair that Wigan produce good players and other clubs benefit but like I said above it's Wigan's fault not the salary caps. You also have to consider the players careers not all of them want to spend 5 years waiting for opportunities at Wigan they want to play rugby and sometimes that means moving to another club.
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joeb
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Re: salary cap

Post by joeb » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:50 pm

i am not saying its wigans fault, what i mean is other clubs dont spend as much as wigan do. i e salford, wakefield, hull, even saints these teams dont brings young lads on for a few years spending a lot of money bringing them on, then letting them go elsewhere because we cant keep them because of salary cap. how many players have left saints in the last five years, and are playing for another super leauge team. you could ask the same question for all the top clubs we can all name a full team of ex wiganers, not a bad team either

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jammie
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Re: salary cap

Post by jammie » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:59 pm

don't see how we are to blame,if you think of all the players that we have let go,if they had all stayed at wigan they would all want good deals.there is no way we could keep that standard of player and keep within the cap there for we have to keep and buy who is going to keep us under the cap and not who we would like to have.if a good player becomes available ie.chev walker,carl pryce i dont see how a SL club is going to take them hense they go to the RAH RAH code.
English by birth. Wigan by the grace of God.



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the grinch
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Re: salary cap

Post by the grinch » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:03 pm

i have heard this argument a thousand times and in the end you just have to accept the salary cap is hear and no one is going to challenge it! in theory its a good thing but when you put it into practice it's ruind the G.B squad its brought more overseas players into our game and to some extent holds back progress.but without it teams like salford, wakey, huddersfield, would not be able to compete against top clubs. they would in effect become feeder clubs every time they develope a good player a top team would simply buy him. i dont want to see the cap abolished! just upgraded every now and then.
dont let your victories go to your head or your failures go to your heart

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jammie
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Re: salary cap

Post by jammie » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:16 pm

so if we develop a team of home grown players,and they go on to be GB players,they are going to want good money,we cannot give them all good money,so the team that we built breaks up,back to stage one,and start again.the salary cap in it's present form stinks,has killed GB and if it isn't adressed soon there will be no point in playing NZ or australia.
English by birth. Wigan by the grace of God.



GeoffN
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Re: salary cap

Post by GeoffN » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:59 am

jammie posted:
don't see how we are to blame,if you think of all the players that we have let go,if they had all stayed at wigan they would all want good deals.there is no way we could keep that standard of player and keep within the cap there for we have to keep and buy who is going to keep us under the cap and not who we would like to have.if a good player becomes available ie.chev walker,carl pryce i dont see how a SL club is going to take them hense they go to the RAH RAH code.
There aren't really that many top class players that we've let go - there are a lot of mediocre ones though, which seems to me to be a good decision.
How many of the youngsters we've let go recently would you want to come back to replace a member of the current squad?
It seems to me that, on the whole, we've kept the best - O'Loughlin, Hock, Ashton, Hansen - and let the ones that weren't up to scratch go.
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DaveO
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Re: salary cap

Post by DaveO » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:49 am

adrenalinxx posted:
Wigan don't actually put as much money into the academy as you might think
So how much do they put in compared to others? Can you qualify the above statement or is it supposition on your part?
but the fact is they have more money than other clubs, if the salary cap was challenge then it just be a step backwards for all the clubs, the idea of the cap is to bring all clubs closer together in terms of performance and if need be share the players around.
I have never understood why people think it is necessary to share players around as such. Wigan even in the glory days didn't sign up every decent player going and produced many of their own with the best sides of the 80's and 90's having a bigger contingent of home grown players than next seasons squad by quite some margin.

What the salary cap does is force clubs to get the best bang for their buck which means going overseas in many instances and Wigan seem to be following suit.
In the end it is Wigan choice if they releases the youth player
I think that is far too simplistic a statement. Each year now Wigan must decide who of the senior players in the U21 squad to keep and it is purely down to the salary cap and 20/25 that this decision must be made.

In pre-salary cap days they may have taken a chance on a player keeping him at the club for longer to see if he matured into a genuine prospect. These days they won't and I think some players will simply be lost to the game completely because other clubs won't give them a slot on their wage bill either.
it is not like other clubs are taking them illegally. I think it is more bad player management on Wigan's part rather than unfair policies from the RFL.

It does seem unfair that Wigan produce good players and other clubs benefit but like I said above it's Wigan's fault not the salary caps.
The fact some clubs simply do not run anything approaching a decent academy set up is a direct result of the salary cap. A senior Wakefield official said so a couple of seasons back. They spend all their salary cap money on senior players because they feel they have to do that to avoid relegation.

Now you could say the problem is relegation not the salary cap forcing them into this short term view but you can't divorce the two.

It is much simpler and more to the point cheaper to look to Wigan's junior sides than grow your own.

Given we have for 2007 "done a Wakefield" and employed a lot of overseas players I think there is a danger Wigan will just give up running a decent junior set up if they feel it is for the benefit of other clubs. So in years to come we won't have the likes of Hock to cheer unless it remains worthwhile for Wigan to produce these players.
You also have to consider the players careers not all of them want to spend 5 years waiting for opportunities at Wigan they want to play rugby and sometimes that means moving to another club.
Just what has the above statement got to do with the salary cap? Throughout the 80's and 90's many players who could not get regular first team football left to join other clubs. Lack of a salary cap would not force players who wanted to further their careers elsewhere to stay at Wigan as it did not back then. No one forces players to sign contracts. Wigan can't tie players to the club if they don't want to stay and the salary cap has nothing to do with that.

If players want to wait around for five years at Wigan that should be up to them but as it is they are often denied that opportunity because of the salary cap. So rather than this enforced player movement being a good thing there is a good chance it is often against their wishes to have to find another club.

Dave

DaveO
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Re: salary cap

Post by DaveO » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:00 am

the grinch posted:
i have heard this argument a thousand times and in the end you just have to accept the salary cap is hear and no one is going to challenge it!
I agree it is here to stay.
....but without it teams like salford, wakey, huddersfield, would not be able to compete against top clubs.
But surely that is down to fundamental problems with how these clubs are run. Doncaster are getting a new stadium and to me this suggests they are gearing up for a franchise bid in 2009 or soon after. They are in effect pulling themselves up to a higher level not sitting where they are waiting for clubs to be pulled back down to them by the salary cap. I don't see much evidence of Wakey or Hudds improving themselves. Salford are getting a new ground and while last season they had their best one for a long time they are not going to sustain that on gates of 4000 even with a salary cap so need the new ground to progress.

What I am saying is there are far more fundamental things to be done to get a club truly competitive long term than the salary cap can influence.

In fact when a good player leaves a top club he usually goes to another top club not the likes of Wakey (e.g. Godwin to Hull, Calders to us).

I think the salary cap gets far too much credit for things it has not influenced. For example I am sure the main reason why Wire are doing so well is due to a rich benefactor prepared to invest in the club far more than the salary cap (e.g. stumping up the cash to fund Gleesons £200K transfer)

Dave

thegimble
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Re: salary cap

Post by thegimble » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:12 pm

Question is has the cap achieved in making the GB side better.

Answer No.

The cap is not the issue for me but Kolpak players are. Too many second rate players come over and do nothing and take a place of a possible British player to develop.

Barrett's and Lyon's of the world SL needs we do not need the over the hill player whos here for pension money.

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