lyndsay... time to go

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Matthew
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by Matthew »

adrenalinxx posted:
If Wigan got relegated then the sensible thing to try and keep some of the good players and then send the rest on season long loans to Super League clubs, fill the other positions in the squad with NL1 players or academy players and then if Wigan get promoted they get to keep those top players.

The academy system would not be effected other than some players being called up into the first team.
Even if we are deducted 12 points and we get relegated (or get deducted 0 points and get relegated for that matter) and then fail to bounce straight back up - it is highly unlikely that Wigan will not be given a franchise for 2009.

Whilst most of the senior players would go should the worse happen - most of the youngsters would be retained.

Wigan are the second best supported club (attendance wise) and that means that not only would sponsors miss out on reaching a large number of people - but it means that visiting teams get smaller gate receipts. We have always been one of the biggest games of the year for nearly every club in SL - and the Good Friday game against saints is a British sporting tradition. We have one of the best youth set-ups and one of the best grounds.

Like I said, even if we were to be relegated I can't see us not being awarded a franchise.

Unfortunately, as soon as we lose a couple of games all of the doom-mongers appear - it comes with the territory of being such a big club
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DaveO
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by DaveO »

adrenalinxx posted:
If Wigan got relegated then the sensible thing to try and keep some of the good players and then send the rest on season long loans to Super League clubs, fill the other positions in the squad with NL1 players or academy players and then if Wigan get promoted they get to keep those top players.
Not possible. When a club goes down all players contracts are declared null and void and they become free agents. The club can't loan out players who are not contracted to it.

Dave
Fraggle
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by Fraggle »

jollygiant3107 posted:
i am simply telling you what i have been told,no need to slate me,the club is panicking because the players do not want to put the hours in,apparantly there is a lot of anomosity between them,the board are worrying because they know its not a 4-6 point reduction but 12,this is what i have been told off a good friend who is in the know,so with a team that are not doing their job and with 12 points taken off us were do you think wigan will end up.
Everyone knows the maximum penalty for an extreme salary cap infringment this season is 12 points, it's hardly a surprise to the club. There are still lots of assumptions being made about our salary cap breach for last year - yes, we did sign the very expensive Fielden, but how many players did we release mid-season? At least some of his costs are covered by the departure of about 12 players during the season. It may be that any 12 point cap breach would be challenged in any case, since the rule wasn't in place at the start of the period for which the penalty is said to apply (the announcement that penalties were being doubled came at the same time as last year's breaches were announced, back in the summer).

Finally, all this talk of players not getting along and doing their job... If I refuse to do my job I get sacked. Simple as that. I don't see why a rugby club should operate any differently if players don't want to train or whatever.

I'll go with Matthew and Wigan Watcher on this one, I'm treating it with a very small pinch of salt.
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DaveO
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by DaveO »

Fraggle posted:
Finally, all this talk of players not getting along and doing their job... If I refuse to do my job I get sacked. Simple as that. I don't see why a rugby club should operate any differently if players don't want to train or whatever.
It isn't and as they would be breaking their contract then the club could sack them without having to pay up their contracts thus saving money on the salary cap that could be used to pay the wages of a player who was prepared to work. Seems a good way to get rid of any dead wood that doesn't want to knuckle down to me! However I doubt we will see any player sackings.

Dave

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adrenalinxx
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by adrenalinxx »

I agree in theory it makes sense just to sack players if they don't perform, after all they are brought to the club to perform although it is not as simple as that in practise.

If a player refused to turn up for training (or broke rules or purposely disrupted training) then perhaps Wigan would have a case to sack the players but if the player turns up for training and just performs badly then it is unlikely that Wigan would be able to sack him as he would still be forfilling his contract.

For most everyday jobs you expected to do your job to a certain standard although it sports contracts you can't have a reasonable standard because performance is hard to measure in sport as it differs from player to player from day to day, take the case of O'Loughlin last season he played ok but some people felt that he was playing below is standard but is that a just reason to sack him.

Performance of a sports player is an unambiguous term; it’s difficult to measure and therefore difficult to prove that the club had a valid reason to sack the player. In America when players are sacked they often sue the clubs for unfair dismissal, if Wigan couldn't produce clear evidence that the player was deliberate performing badly then its likely that Wigan could be sued for unfair dismissal, and that is basically why players aren't sacked for poor performances.
DaveO
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by DaveO »

adrenalinxx posted:
I agree in theory it makes sense just to sack players if they don't perform, after all they are brought to the club to perform although it is not as simple as that in practise.
You have missed the point completely. It is not about sacking players for poor performance but for breach of contract by refusing to train. Two totally different things.

Millward did not get sacked form Saints for poor performance but he got the boot without compensation because the Saints club got him for breach of contract regarding disciplinary issues.

Wigan would have to do the same with the players which if they refuse to train the hours required you would hope is grounds enough for breach of contract to apply.

They could actually go out and win MoM after MoM awards but if they are in breach of contract could still get the boot with no compensation.

Dave
thegimble
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by thegimble »

Fraggle posted:
jollygiant3107 posted:
i am simply telling you what i have been told,no need to slate me,the club is panicking because the players do not want to put the hours in,apparantly there is a lot of anomosity between them,the board are worrying because they know its not a 4-6 point reduction but 12,this is what i have been told off a good friend who is in the know,so with a team that are not doing their job and with 12 points taken off us were do you think wigan will end up.
Everyone knows the maximum penalty for an extreme salary cap infringment this season is 12 points, it's hardly a surprise to the club. There are still lots of assumptions being made about our salary cap breach for last year - yes, we did sign the very expensive Fielden, but how many players did we release mid-season? At least some of his costs are covered by the departure of about 12 players during the season. It may be that any 12 point cap breach would be challenged in any case, since the rule wasn't in place at the start of the period for which the penalty is said to apply (the announcement that penalties were being doubled came at the same time as last year's breaches were announced, back in the summer).

Finally, all this talk of players not getting along and doing their job... If I refuse to do my job I get sacked. Simple as that. I don't see why a rugby club should operate any differently if players don't want to train or whatever.

I'll go with Matthew and Wigan Watcher on this one, I'm treating it with a very small pinch of salt.

People seem to be going to great lengths to bring in the cap situation. Personally i think it will be 2 points or nothing at all. To go over by over 5o thousand again would be a major shock to me. We had less players in last season than the season before and we paid Davico in full for 2 minutes of gae time.

We signed Fielden and RFL said everything was ok and players were leaving to finance the deal as well as the retirement of Jerry.

Personally and i might be wrong but i think we spent less last season than the season before. IM signed a few players mid season on his first season whilst Nobby brought in Dobson whod i guess be on less than Moran was by a mile. Mcavoy another cheap players on the money side. And Filden who cost a packet in a transfer fee.

Since the inseption of the cap give MO credit as hes got us under the cap and weve been penalised once.

Also changing the rule mid season and enforcing extra penalties could well be challenged in court as remember what the RFL said last year when the rumor was we would never be allowed to go down.

and I quote

We cant change the rules mis season.
thegimble
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by thegimble »

Wigan Watcher posted:
I shouldn’t give this topic the time of day but I have.

Simple no problems at the JJB other than the normal one’s that are the day to day running of a club. (Official)

And for you people who could read into that statement a different way, please don’t it’s simply not worth it!

End of this silly topic for me.
One thing im sure of and ive been on this board for a few years now. If there were any problems WW is the first to know.

Defenitely works fro the club in some capacity.

If you do can i have free pies for the rest of the season. Not the cheese and onion one though. Allergic to chesse apparently.
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gillysmyhero
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by gillysmyhero »

Did'nt the jollygiant post on this site a few day's before the pre season freindly against the Giants that Barret was'nt going to play .I Can,t remember what but i think he has posred a few rumours that have turned out true.I hope he's completely wrong on this one.
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the grinch
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Re: lyndsay... time to go

Post by the grinch »

what will be will be my freinds. no point worrying about it. :wink:
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