Head Shots

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AndyNick
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:43 pm

Head Shots

Post by AndyNick » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:16 am

Sure you've probably seen the class action case being made against the RFU, WRU and World Rugby. I will likely get slated for this but I think this is an area where Rugby League is severely lagging behind and needs to seriously get under control or we will likely see similar cases being brought in RL as well.

Like it or loathe it Union has clamped down big style on shots to the head. There is zero tolerance, A shoulder to the head = a red card end of. This season we've seen some absolute sickeners, some of which haven't even been punished. Take Murdoch Masila against Huddersfield for example. Stop fining players for celebrating, and take some control over the head shots. Make it clear to all players before the season starts that Head shots will be harshly dealt with and result in a red card. That way fans and players can't complain when their players are dismissed for it. Remove the "On Report" cop out option. The MRP review everything anyway so its getting looked at regardless of whether it's put on report or not. Once teams start losing matches because their players are being sent off then they might do something about it.

Can say all you like that the games gone soft, but look at the sums of money that have been paid out in the NFL over this issue. Listen to Steve Thompson who can't remember a single minute of the 2003 World Cup win. This is going to be huge and if RL doesn't get its act together, never mind games gone soft, it will be games gone bankrupt.

nathan_rugby
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by nathan_rugby » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:06 pm

AndyNick wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:16 am
Sure you've probably seen the class action case being made against the RFU, WRU and World Rugby. I will likely get slated for this but I think this is an area where Rugby League is severely lagging behind and needs to seriously get under control or we will likely see similar cases being brought in RL as well.

Like it or loathe it Union has clamped down big style on shots to the head. There is zero tolerance, A shoulder to the head = a red card end of. This season we've seen some absolute sickeners, some of which haven't even been punished. Take Murdoch Masila against Huddersfield for example. Stop fining players for celebrating, and take some control over the head shots. Make it clear to all players before the season starts that Head shots will be harshly dealt with and result in a red card. That way fans and players can't complain when their players are dismissed for it. Remove the "On Report" cop out option. The MRP review everything anyway so its getting looked at regardless of whether it's put on report or not. Once teams start losing matches because their players are being sent off then they might do something about it.

Can say all you like that the games gone soft, but look at the sums of money that have been paid out in the NFL over this issue. Listen to Steve Thompson who can't remember a single minute of the 2003 World Cup win. This is going to be huge and if RL doesn't get its act together, never mind games gone soft, it will be games gone bankrupt.
First of all I think credit where it is due on the fact we have the HIA substitution. Football is coming under criticism for not having the same.

Mostly agree with your point above as long as the rules and expectations are clear. These type of changes often cause a stir because of inconsistency amongst the referees.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."

Charriots Offiah
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by Charriots Offiah » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:54 pm

It’s just the tip of the iceberg. Professional sportsmen are in a fortunate position, if you can call it that, as they are able to launch a legal challenge against their sporting bodies. There will be thousands of individuals who have played the game at an amateur level who will not be able to claim recompense.

Dementia doesn’t seem to receive the funding or medical recognition that it deserves. It is a cruel illness, that has a massive impact not only on those afflicted with it but also on the loved one’s who care for the individual and witness the sad deterioration in their health. Hopefully, Thompson et al will raise the profile and consequently generate greater funding with a view to finding a cure.

Barney841
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:24 am

Re: Head Shots

Post by Barney841 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:12 pm

I think it’s all abit of a joke. Yes the club and the committee of any sport should take care of you the best they can but sportsman know what there getting into when they take up certain sports.
To say you’ve got something wrong with you after your career is finished and it’s because the bangs to the head(you know that what comes in rugby and is a formality), that’s why the skull cap was invented for protection.
It’s like a boxer coming out saying I’m suing as I’ve had too many bangs to the head

the pieman
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by the pieman » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:32 pm

Barney841 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:12 pm
I think it’s all abit of a joke. Yes the club and the committee of any sport should take care of you the best they can but sportsman know what there getting into when they take up certain sports.
To say you’ve got something wrong with you after your career is finished and it’s because the bangs to the head(you know that what comes in rugby and is a formality), that’s why the skull cap was invented for protection.
It’s like a boxer coming out saying I’m suing as I’ve had too many bangs to the head
i think that statement is a bit harsh or short sighted in my opinion, but respect that is your opinion, and this subject is going to generate quite a bit of debate.

whilst i agree with boxing for example, in that a boxer enters the ring and knows that someone is going to be knocking hell out of them, and similar the mixed martial arts / cage fighting

however in rugby and many other sports, i dont believe that you can say that you know what you are signing up for. Initially as a child you sign up to play rugby with your mates, and if you are lucky enough may be scouted for a professional club. Whilst you know that the game is physically demanding and there are going to be times when you may be injured, you dont sign up thinking i'll play professional rugby, but i may have a serious brain condition once i have finished playing. If you think of Rob Burrow at the minute with MND, whilst i dont think anyone has said it is directly from playing rugby, can anyone rule it out for definite?

As fans we love to see the physicality of the game, and i love a good 26 man all in, but at the same time the governing body must now be looking at this with a view to making changes to keep the game fast and physical, but with a view to adding protection to the players. I think a previous poster mentioned that in RU any headshot is sent off. I know we all may not agree with it, but if that is needed to allow the game to continue and the players / players union etc are happy, then it has to be seriously looked at being introduced into the game. At the end of the day a RL player isnt on a massive salary for playing a professional sport, so if we start to lose players, then we wont have a game to watch.

Barney841
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:24 am

Re: Head Shots

Post by Barney841 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:35 pm

the pieman wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:32 pm
Barney841 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:12 pm
I think it’s all abit of a joke. Yes the club and the committee of any sport should take care of you the best they can but sportsman know what there getting into when they take up certain sports.
To say you’ve got something wrong with you after your career is finished and it’s because the bangs to the head(you know that what comes in rugby and is a formality), that’s why the skull cap was invented for protection.
It’s like a boxer coming out saying I’m suing as I’ve had too many bangs to the head
i think that statement is a bit harsh or short sighted in my opinion, but respect that is your opinion, and this subject is going to generate quite a bit of debate.

whilst i agree with boxing for example, in that a boxer enters the ring and knows that someone is going to be knocking hell out of them, and similar the mixed martial arts / cage fighting

however in rugby and many other sports, i dont believe that you can say that you know what you are signing up for. Initially as a child you sign up to play rugby with your mates, and if you are lucky enough may be scouted for a professional club. Whilst you know that the game is physically demanding and there are going to be times when you may be injured, you dont sign up thinking i'll play professional rugby, but i may have a serious brain condition once i have finished playing. If you think of Rob Burrow at the minute with MND, whilst i dont think anyone has said it is directly from playing rugby, can anyone rule it out for definite?

As fans we love to see the physicality of the game, and i love a good 26 man all in, but at the same time the governing body must now be looking at this with a view to making changes to keep the game fast and physical, but with a view to adding protection to the players. I think a previous poster mentioned that in RU any headshot is sent off. I know we all may not agree with it, but if that is needed to allow the game to continue and the players / players union etc are happy, then it has to be seriously looked at being introduced into the game. At the end of the day a RL player isnt on a massive salary for playing a professional sport, so if we start to lose players, then we wont have a game to watch.
It’s just how I say things so it sounds harsh, I don’t mean to be.
Rugby is a physical game and it’s inevitable that you will get injuries, god forbid life threatening injuries. Protection is provided in most sports but passion and determination takeover. You see players from the old days with knackered knees and god knows what else. You don’t see them saying anything as it was there choice to do what they did.

the pieman
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by the pieman » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:46 pm

Barney841 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:35 pm
the pieman wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:32 pm
Barney841 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:12 pm
I think it’s all abit of a joke. Yes the club and the committee of any sport should take care of you the best they can but sportsman know what there getting into when they take up certain sports.
To say you’ve got something wrong with you after your career is finished and it’s because the bangs to the head(you know that what comes in rugby and is a formality), that’s why the skull cap was invented for protection.
It’s like a boxer coming out saying I’m suing as I’ve had too many bangs to the head
i think that statement is a bit harsh or short sighted in my opinion, but respect that is your opinion, and this subject is going to generate quite a bit of debate.

whilst i agree with boxing for example, in that a boxer enters the ring and knows that someone is going to be knocking hell out of them, and similar the mixed martial arts / cage fighting

however in rugby and many other sports, i dont believe that you can say that you know what you are signing up for. Initially as a child you sign up to play rugby with your mates, and if you are lucky enough may be scouted for a professional club. Whilst you know that the game is physically demanding and there are going to be times when you may be injured, you dont sign up thinking i'll play professional rugby, but i may have a serious brain condition once i have finished playing. If you think of Rob Burrow at the minute with MND, whilst i dont think anyone has said it is directly from playing rugby, can anyone rule it out for definite?

As fans we love to see the physicality of the game, and i love a good 26 man all in, but at the same time the governing body must now be looking at this with a view to making changes to keep the game fast and physical, but with a view to adding protection to the players. I think a previous poster mentioned that in RU any headshot is sent off. I know we all may not agree with it, but if that is needed to allow the game to continue and the players / players union etc are happy, then it has to be seriously looked at being introduced into the game. At the end of the day a RL player isnt on a massive salary for playing a professional sport, so if we start to lose players, then we wont have a game to watch.
It’s just how I say things so it sounds harsh, I don’t mean to be.
Rugby is a physical game and it’s inevitable that you will get injuries, god forbid life threatening injuries. Protection is provided in most sports but passion and determination takeover. You see players from the old days with knackered knees and god knows what else. You don’t see them saying anything as it was there choice to do what they did.
i think most players would accept that there is a risk of injury or potentially knackered knees. As technology and things in general progress, there is also a good chance that someone playing today has more chance of recovering or having a replacement than someone who played 20-30 years ago, so their quality of life after the game will be better than it may be now.

where i think the game could get onto shakey ground is if they choose to do nothing about it now in terms of head injuries given the high profile cases going through in the US, football with dementia believed to be from heading the ball and now RU. i am like you i love the physicality of the game and also the passion from the players. i dont want the game to be sanitised, but at the same time i do think that there may need to be changes

Caboosegg
Posts: 1978
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by Caboosegg » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:54 pm

i think league does well with head knocks,
direct attacks to the head (unless your the attacking player with ball in hand) are banned, but if you start penalising any contact to the head (like of the shoulders) then you will get player just ducking down to get cheap penalties.

if there was a way to improve the safety (maybe enforce headcaps) i'm all for it, but accidental contact to the head is a risk of the sport.
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Firestarter
Posts: 3077
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by Firestarter » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 pm

If this is introduced in league it will be the start of the end imo
IF YOU STRIKE ME DOWN I WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE

Nezza Faz
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:05 pm

Re: Head Shots

Post by Nezza Faz » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:41 pm

Just my own thoughts on the union players suing but I believe the vast majority of that group are/were forwards who continually put their heads through terrible stress in that combative force that is the union scrummage. As this is a huge part of their 80 minute game time, combined with their man-mountain pile ups of moving rucks and mauls, it is wrong to point similar guilty fingers at our game of RL where the, literally, odd high shot is vilified as a equal to union's wrongs, especially when those high shots are purely accidental i.e riding up off the shoulder. Where miscreants are found out, the Disciplinary have the power to act (and where here, maybe guilty verdicts should be more heavily penalized).
Going back to union, those scrums repeated hundreds and thousands of times in a players career, must impact massively on their well being. It's a big part traditionally of their game, and which they are reluctant to alter, but change must happen, or this dementia will continue unabated. Remember if a prop is injured and unable to continue, he MUST be replaced by another experienced prop, otherwise they go to an uncontested scrum, on both sides for the rest of the game, which demonstrates the implied danger to this part of their game. Going back 30 years to the Bath challenges of the 90's, they had to allow our forwards uncontested scrums to avoid unnecessary injury, so this is a well known element of potential harm to the head going back a couple of decades, without any contrite action taken by the rfu authorities. And this despite many cases, at all levels, where players have been disabled through those collapsed scrums. RL is not even in the same ball park as this.

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