Edwards Again

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DaveO
Posts: 15018
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by DaveO »

jobo wrote:
DaveO wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:51 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Only if you believe Edwards
Well given IL says Edwards wanted to bring in his own backroom team (and that the club won’t allow a coach to do that) unless you think IL is also not to be believed the point made by Chariots stands doesn’t it?
When they shook on the deal, did Edwards stipulate that he wanted his own backroom staff?

As far as I can gather, backroom staff only became an issue after Edwards began to get cold feet.

As for IL lying, I personally think that's as daft as most other conspiracy theorys.

Caboosegg doesn’t believe Edwards story that he didn’t take the post because he could not bring in his own backroom staff.

IL confirmed Edwards wanted to do this but also said he wouldn’t allow this.

So the pair of them are in fact on the same page in that regard.

So unless Caboosegg thinks IL is lying about this he doesn’t have a point.

I did not accuse IL of lying but pointed out both IL and Edwards both mentioned the issue of the backroom staff. So you don’t just have to believe Edwards.

The fact IL mentioned the back room staff at the fans forum which was before Edwards piped up again about the issue suggests IL was aware of what Edwards wanted. If Edwards had never mentioned back room staff appointments why would IL?

If as you suggest Edwards only mentioned back room staff after he got cold feet why didn’t IL announce Edwards was not going to be coach due to what IL considered unreasonable demands?

After all there was no contract because IL didn’t get him to sign one! So IL could have ended the arrangement as soon as Edwards demanded his own staff.

I’d also expect IL to say Edwards only started making these demands late in the day if that was the case.

He has not. He agrees Edwards asked for his backroom staff.

It’s blindingly obvious Edwards asked for this from the off but IL announced him as coach without doing anything about the backroom staff when Edwards thought it was a done deal.
Charriots Offiah
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by Charriots Offiah »

jobo wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:29 pm
DaveO wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:51 pm
Caboosegg wrote:

Only if you believe Edwards
Well given IL says Edwards wanted to bring in his own backroom team (and that the club won’t allow a coach to do that) unless you think IL is also not to be believed the point made by Chariots stands doesn’t it?
When they shook on the deal, did Edwards stipulate that he wanted his own backroom staff?

As far as I can gather, backroom staff only became an issue after Edwards began to get cold feet.

As for IL lying, I personally think that's as daft as most other conspiracy theorys.
See Dave’s post quoting IFL, it is obvious that Edwards raised this as a pre-requisite of him taking the job, at that point IFL should have withdrawn from the deal and informed the masses of the reason for doing so. Such action would have killed this issue. If IFL thinks that is the best option, for the club, then fine as he is the man bankrolling it.
the deal and informed the masses
Caboosegg
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by Caboosegg »

Charriots Offiah wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:36 pm
jobo wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:29 pm
DaveO wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:51 pm
Well given IL says Edwards wanted to bring in his own backroom team (and that the club won’t allow a coach to do that) unless you think IL is also not to be believed the point made by Chariots stands doesn’t it?
When they shook on the deal, did Edwards stipulate that he wanted his own backroom staff?

As far as I can gather, backroom staff only became an issue after Edwards began to get cold feet.

As for IL lying, I personally think that's as daft as most other conspiracy theorys.
See Dave’s post quoting IFL, it is obvious that Edwards raised this as a pre-requisite of him taking the job, at that point IFL should have withdrawn from the deal and informed the masses of the reason for doing so. Such action would have killed this issue. If IFL thinks that is the best option, for the club, then fine as he is the man bankrolling it.
the deal and informed the masses
DaveOs post with no factual evidence that the background staff was agreed or not?

It's almost as in completely agreeing with Edward full version fit a narrative some posters have about the club...

IL admitted mistakes but has kept overall quiet. Edwards apperently has done nothing wrong at all.

Why would KR come out and say the comments he did if there was no truth, as a sport personality I'm sure if they where false Edwards could sue for slander or reputation damages like many famous people do these days.

Edwards apperently wanted to be left alone for the 6 nations bit magically didn't want to be left alone enough to start other contract negotiations or magically establish his "backroom staff" request wasn't met.

The fawning over Edwards who let's be honest doesn't give a rats ass about league is a joke.

The club obviously made errors but anyone trying to say Edwards didn't screw us over at the first sniff of a better deal is having a laugh.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell
fozzieskem
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Edwards Again

Post by fozzieskem »

The second Edwards said he needed 12 months was the point Lenegan should have said "F-you son nothings bigger than Wigan"and walked away Lenagan biggest error was seemingly being blinded by a person who hadn't been involved with the game was ridiculous.

I'll say it again the club dodged a bullet by him not saying yes to the job it would and I say it again.a disaster
Caboosegg
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by Caboosegg »

DaveO wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:34 pm
jobo wrote:
DaveO wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:51 pm
Well given IL says Edwards wanted to bring in his own backroom team (and that the club won’t allow a coach to do that) unless you think IL is also not to be believed the point made by Chariots stands doesn’t it?
When they shook on the deal, did Edwards stipulate that he wanted his own backroom staff?

As far as I can gather, backroom staff only became an issue after Edwards began to get cold feet.

As for IL lying, I personally think that's as daft as most other conspiracy theorys.

Caboosegg doesn’t believe Edwards story that he didn’t take the post because he could not bring in his own backroom staff.

IL confirmed Edwards wanted to do this but also said he wouldn’t allow this.

So the pair of them are in fact on the same page in that regard.

So unless Caboosegg thinks IL is lying about this he doesn’t have a point.

I did not accuse IL of lying but pointed out both IL and Edwards both mentioned the issue of the backroom staff. So you don’t just have to believe Edwards.

The fact IL mentioned the back room staff at the fans forum which was before Edwards piped up again about the issue suggests IL was aware of what Edwards wanted. If Edwards had never mentioned back room staff appointments why would IL?

If as you suggest Edwards only mentioned back room staff after he got cold feet why didn’t IL announce Edwards was not going to be coach due to what IL considered unreasonable demands?

After all there was no contract because IL didn’t get him to sign one! So IL could have ended the arrangement as soon as Edwards demanded his own staff.

I’d also expect IL to say Edwards only started making these demands late in the day if that was the case.

He has not. He agrees Edwards asked for his backroom staff.

It’s blindingly obvious Edwards asked for this from the off but IL announced him as coach without doing anything about the backroom staff when Edwards thought it was a done deal.
I don't believe that story no, Edwards similar actions with Wale RU after show form.

I do not believe that IL Is completely innocent at all and I believe both parties made mistakes.

You use IL announcing it as evidence he is in the wrong but if I'm not mistaken Edwards was at the same meeting. From the interpretation you put across IL obviously agreed to Edwards demands with no intention of honouring them, this doesn't make sense.

The article when Edwards signed for France says that he heard nothing for 4 months and only found out Williams had been sold (bit of a spin we couldn't keep him if he wanted to go) through the papers, but IL and KR both said he wanted to be left alone during the 6 nations. I haven't seen Edwards deny that. He also had contract negotiations going on with Wales RU and ditched them for France because they showed how much they wanted him.

With the changes the club had the year Edwards was due I don't believe that he couldn't have a say. We brought Pete back and had alot of backroom staff movement.

I probably come across as of the opinion the club did no wrong but I really don't believe that. Just the amount of Edwards did no wrong posts is obscene.

I apologise for any errors in spelling and grammar above, I'm typing on a phone so don't notice until after.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell
moto748
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by moto748 »

The thing that strikes me about this is, put yourself in Edwards' shoes; you want to be in charge, bring your own guys in. Of course, that's natural. Is it credible that Edwards would somehow have kept quiet about that, and then sprung it on the club at the last moment? Isn't it much more realistic to assume that he'd have made that clear from Day 1?
jobo
Posts: 3279
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 1:33 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by jobo »

moto748 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:56 am The thing that strikes me about this is, put yourself in Edwards' shoes; you want to be in charge, bring your own guys in. Of course, that's natural. Is it credible that Edwards would somehow have kept quiet about that, and then sprung it on the club at the last moment? Isn't it much more realistic to assume that he'd have made that clear from Day 1?
If anyone can point out that IL said at any time, that he initially agreed Edwards could bring in his own staff and then reneged on this promise, I'll continue to dis-trust Edwards version of events.

Until then, it's all conjecture and chinese whispers.
AndyNick
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by AndyNick »

Edwards used us as a bargaining chip to get a better deal in Rugby Union. End of. Was Lenegan naive to allow that to happen? Absolutely! Were the warning signs there from the start and IL completely ignored them at the prospect of the PR coup of bringing back a RL legend from the upper reaches of Union. Without a doubt.

KR and IL made serious errors on this one and they've admitted as much, but dont for one second allow Edwards to play the victim. He knew what he was doing from the start. He was never coming to Wigan, There was always going to be an offer from union that would blow out of the water what we could afford. Looking back the alarm bells were there from the start. I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. What bothers me more is that we don't appear to have learned from our mistakes. The Williams saga being an example of that.

We are in desperate need of an outside perspective. We've prided ourselves on promoting from within and it has been largely successful but the issue is that eyes from within can often miss root issues that are causing problems and an outside influence is needed to reset things. (Michael McGuire is a great example of this process, Holbrook going to St Helens is another) This is where we are right now. We need an outside appointment at the top with no loyalties to anyone within the setup. Look at the fuss they kicked up at Stains when Jon Wilkin was told he was no longer required. A loyal servant of the club without doubt but no longer good enough to cut it at the top level. There are a fair few in our squad who fit that description but will have squad numbers next season between 1-13.
nathan_rugby
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by nathan_rugby »

AndyNick wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:51 am Edwards used us as a bargaining chip to get a better deal in Rugby Union. End of. Was Lenegan naive to allow that to happen? Absolutely! Were the warning signs there from the start and IL completely ignored them at the prospect of the PR coup of bringing back a RL legend from the upper reaches of Union. Without a doubt.

KR and IL made serious errors on this one and they've admitted as much, but dont for one second allow Edwards to play the victim. He knew what he was doing from the start. He was never coming to Wigan, There was always going to be an offer from union that would blow out of the water what we could afford. Looking back the alarm bells were there from the start. I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. What bothers me more is that we don't appear to have learned from our mistakes. The Williams saga being an example of that.

We are in desperate need of an outside perspective. We've prided ourselves on promoting from within and it has been largely successful but the issue is that eyes from within can often miss root issues that are causing problems and an outside influence is needed to reset things. (Michael McGuire is a great example of this process, Holbrook going to St Helens is another) This is where we are right now. We need an outside appointment at the top with no loyalties to anyone within the setup. Look at the fuss they kicked up at Stains when Jon Wilkin was told he was no longer required. A loyal servant of the club without doubt but no longer good enough to cut it at the top level. There are a fair few in our squad who fit that description but will have squad numbers next season between 1-13.
What is the Williams saga another example of?
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
AndyNick
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Edwards Again

Post by AndyNick »

nathan_rugby wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:30 am
AndyNick wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:51 am Edwards used us as a bargaining chip to get a better deal in Rugby Union. End of. Was Lenegan naive to allow that to happen? Absolutely! Were the warning signs there from the start and IL completely ignored them at the prospect of the PR coup of bringing back a RL legend from the upper reaches of Union. Without a doubt.

KR and IL made serious errors on this one and they've admitted as much, but dont for one second allow Edwards to play the victim. He knew what he was doing from the start. He was never coming to Wigan, There was always going to be an offer from union that would blow out of the water what we could afford. Looking back the alarm bells were there from the start. I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. What bothers me more is that we don't appear to have learned from our mistakes. The Williams saga being an example of that.

We are in desperate need of an outside perspective. We've prided ourselves on promoting from within and it has been largely successful but the issue is that eyes from within can often miss root issues that are causing problems and an outside influence is needed to reset things. (Michael McGuire is a great example of this process, Holbrook going to St Helens is another) This is where we are right now. We need an outside appointment at the top with no loyalties to anyone within the setup. Look at the fuss they kicked up at Stains when Jon Wilkin was told he was no longer required. A loyal servant of the club without doubt but no longer good enough to cut it at the top level. There are a fair few in our squad who fit that description but will have squad numbers next season between 1-13.
What is the Williams saga another example of?
Not learning from mistakes. It was well known that Warrington were courting Williams. We knew the offer from them was coming to blow ours out of the water. The whole first refusal thing was completely worthless. The way it was handled meant that;
a) We looked naieve and foolish when it comes to business dealings, AGAIN.
b) It was reinforced that players can sign anything they like because it won't be enforced when the time comes.
c) One of our biggest rivals have very much got one over on us

Its not necessarily comparing like with like but the Edwards and Williams saga's were both a complete mess from a business perspective.
We had Dan on here telling us all not to worry, the Williams deal was done, he's coming home. Dan is usually spot on and I have no doubt that he was telling us this because that was what he was getting from the club. Everyone else from other clubs was telling us he's going to Wire. Ex players were telling us he's going to Wire. Either the club were completely oblivious to what everyone else in the game knew was going on, or they were duped into believing it wasn't true. Either way, just like the Edwards saga, it was a massive shambles. AGAIN!
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