Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

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doc
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by doc »

Expand the SL to 14 teams.

Play each other home and away once.

Make a big event by having a magic weekend draw on TV i.e. not the same fixtures every year.

Go back to the top 5 play off system as for my money this was the original and best system.
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Mike
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by Mike »

Lose the playoffs and Saints have basically already won. Noone has anything to play for and all the attention is on the relgation battle after about 2/3rds of the season. The remaining 1/3rd matches irrelevant for anyone not right at the top, or right at the bottom. Playoffs are the lesser of two evils and allow for all the "unfair" league systems that we've had over the years. They're definitely too big though. 6 teams qualifying from a 12 team league is crazy.
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by moto748 »

OK, I'm going to say what I always say that this point: everyone moans about the play-offs, but they have a (Ok, not identical) system in the NRL, and that is widely accepted by fans. And they even give the eighth team a shot! And (nearly) everyone thinks that's fine. And the whole 'making the eight' thing is a big deal. So why can't we make it work/placate the fans here?
Last edited by moto748 on Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by moto748 »

Yeah, and I know you can argue, the team that finishes top, like in football, should be champs. And I have sympathy with that view. But we all know, for money reasons, that's not gonna happen again. So we are going to have a play-off system.
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by archiekeith »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:56 pm If we want Rugby League to survive/improve this format HAS to change

The playoffs has destroyed the meaning of the league and it undermines the entire sport and the need for a season ticket for fans outside the core fan base.

Im not going to create a massive post listing everything thats wrong with the system and why it devalues the league so much but put it this way

Leeds are currently sat in 6th - they had around a 50% points return for the matches theyve played in
compare to football the biggest sport of all (therefore one we should learn from)
Last season Manchester United also finished 6th in the league they also had a points return ratio of around 50%

Imagine explaining to a football fan that in rugby league Leeds could still be champions its the equivalent of at the end of last season after the league ended Manchester United playing 3 additional games and be crowned champions over Liverpool/City

The standards liverpool and City have set in football is outstanding and its dragged non football fans like myself into the sport because you know every game counts - even now liverpool by drawing their first match have dented their title hopes

rugby league on the other hand would rather dumb the league down so the clubs that have had seasons of utter tosh can still be champions if you can string 3 games together at the end
Sensible post WF. Whoever comes top of the League at the end of the season first order logic informs us who the rightful Champion is. The play offs are really a second order option akin to the old Premiership competition. The very fact that the audacious named "Grand Finall can be won by a team that comes eg. 5th eg. Leeds with gol rings and fanfares demeans the logically rightful Champions and does a disservice to the logic of the league leader.
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by Wigan_forever1985 »

Mike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:30 pm Lose the playoffs and Saints have basically already won. Noone has anything to play for and all the attention is on the relgation battle after about 2/3rds of the season. The remaining 1/3rd matches irrelevant for anyone not right at the top, or right at the bottom. Playoffs are the lesser of two evils and allow for all the "unfair" league systems that we've had over the years. They're definitely too big though. 6 teams qualifying from a 12 team league is crazy.
I disagree - if we didn't have the play-off's i guarantee the league would be closer because more importance would be put into the season games. The LLS is a joke no-one really cares/wants to win it the teams are effectively in a peloton just keeping pace and trying to manage injuries/fitness

In terms of it working in the NRL well we aren't in Australia and f you want to bring fans to the sport from the dominant neutral sports here you need to make the season matter - otherwise what's the draw because really in our sport the entire season is decided by a few games at the end so why bother watching the season?

Even taking your point as read - ok Saints would have won - good - that means they would have rightly been rewarded for winning the most games, and you know what other teams need to do to win? win more games next season - to do that you will need a better squad more strength so you'll strengthen.

Truth is with our sport now its pretty much just about injuries

Im sorry but in a sport where you could win every single game barring 1 at the end and another team can lose more games than they win and beat you in 1 game and be crowned champions that's bonkers

Ever since leeds won it from 5th the intensity in the normal games has lessened - teams playing weakened teams has grown because coaches quickly realised you dont even have to be that good to win you just have to time your run well and stay injury free at the right time
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by josie andrews »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:10 am
Mike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:30 pm Lose the playoffs and Saints have basically already won. Noone has anything to play for and all the attention is on the relgation battle after about 2/3rds of the season. The remaining 1/3rd matches irrelevant for anyone not right at the top, or right at the bottom. Playoffs are the lesser of two evils and allow for all the "unfair" league systems that we've had over the years. They're definitely too big though. 6 teams qualifying from a 12 team league is crazy.
I disagree - if we didn't have the play-off's i guarantee the league would be closer because more importance would be put into the season games. The LLS is a joke no-one really cares/wants to win it the teams are effectively in a peloton just keeping pace and trying to manage injuries/fitness

In terms of it working in the NRL well we aren't in Australia and f you want to bring fans to the sport from the dominant neutral sports here you need to make the season matter - otherwise what's the draw because really in our sport the entire season is decided by a few games at the end so why bother watching the season?

Even taking your point as read - ok Saints would have won - good - that means they would have rightly been rewarded for winning the most games, and you know what other teams need to do to win? win more games next season - to do that you will need a better squad more strength so you'll strengthen.

Truth is with our sport now its pretty much just about injuries

Im sorry but in a sport where you could win every single game barring 1 at the end and another team can lose more games than they win and beat you in 1 game and be crowned champions that's bonkers

Ever since leeds won it from 5th the intensity in the normal games has lessened - teams playing weakened teams has grown because coaches quickly realised you dont even have to be that good to win you just have to time your run well and stay injury free at the right time
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by archiekeith »

Wigan_forever1985 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:10 am
Mike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:30 pm Lose the playoffs and Saints have basically already won. Noone has anything to play for and all the attention is on the relgation battle after about 2/3rds of the season. The remaining 1/3rd matches irrelevant for anyone not right at the top, or right at the bottom. Playoffs are the lesser of two evils and allow for all the "unfair" league systems that we've had over the years. They're definitely too big though. 6 teams qualifying from a 12 team league is crazy.
I disagree - if we didn't have the play-off's i guarantee the league would be closer because more importance would be put into the season games. The LLS is a joke no-one really cares/wants to win it the teams are effectively in a peloton just keeping pace and trying to manage injuries/fitness

In terms of it working in the NRL well we aren't in Australia and f you want to bring fans to the sport from the dominant neutral sports here you need to make the season matter - otherwise what's the draw because really in our sport the entire season is decided by a few games at the end so why bother watching the season?

Even taking your point as read - ok Saints would have won - good - that means they would have rightly been rewarded for winning the most games, and you know what other teams need to do to win? win more games next season - to do that you will need a better squad more strength so you'll strengthen.

Truth is with our sport now its pretty much just about injuries

Im sorry but in a sport where you could win every single game barring 1 at the end and another team can lose more games than they win and beat you in 1 game and be crowned champions that's bonkers

Ever since leeds won it from 5th the intensity in the normal games has lessened - teams playing weakened teams has grown because coaches quickly realised you dont even have to be that good to win you just have to time your run well and stay injury free at the right time
Again WF I couldn't agree with you more with your logically self evident appraisal Every game becomes really contested.whereas inthe present format it doesn't Your final paragraph says it all and evidentially is so obvious it's difficult to ignore
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Mike
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by Mike »

Fair enough, but are you in a vocal minority, or is there a majority for change here?

Can you explain, why the SL and all its clubs have decided to keep the playoffs every time they've discussed competition structure despite your belief that their fans prefer a first past the post system? Is it the poor clubs wanting a route to victory; financial advantages; SKY insisting, or what?
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Re: Why Super League play-offs will have different dynamic in 2022

Post by nathan_rugby »

Mike wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:03 pm Fair enough, but are you in a vocal minority, or is there a majority for change here?

Can you explain, why the SL and all its clubs have decided to keep the playoffs every time they've discussed competition structure despite your belief that their fans prefer a first past the post system? Is it the poor clubs wanting a route to victory; financial advantages; SKY insisting, or what?
It will be Sky and the fact that clubs expect bigger crowds so get more revenue.
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