Great result for International game?

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southportcdm
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Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:05 pm

Great result for International game?

Post by southportcdm »

I know that yesterday's result was dreadful for us English fans and will have a detrimental knock-on effect on the crowd/finances for the final but those running the tournament really should try to advertise any positives they can. It's an amazing achievement for a tiny island nation (population 200 000, far less than that quoted for Wigan and Leigh) to reach the World Cup Final. Any international sport should celebrate when a nation qualifies for their first ever World Cup Final. Surely, we all want the international game to grow and this is an example of that. We've just had the two best semi-finals in the competition's history and we should be looking for ways to strengthen the competition further. You would hope now that any players from the island nations who could also be persuaded to play for Australia or New Zealand will be less likely to do so. You would also hope that any Samoan youngsters that are considering playing rugby will now choose league rather than union where their national team will (probably) never make a semi-final or final. Wouldn't it be great if we could get the Fijians to feel the same way?

Somehow the game needs to help countries such as France, PNG and Fiji to get up to the level of England, Samoa and Tonga. I realise that Australia and to some extent New Zealand are out of reach of the rest of us when they are at their best and initially the best we can do is to make certain that they're not allowed to weaken the developing teams in any way. I honestly don't know how we could achieve these objectives and don't hold out a great deal of hope but we can at least be supportive where possible. I hope those of you that are now undecided about going to Old Trafford at the weekend will be there with me cheering on the Samoans.
fozzieskem
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Re: Great result for International game?

Post by fozzieskem »

Nothing would please me more than Samoa winning next weekend I doubt it’ll happen as I’ve said since their first game Australia (it’s a shock I know)will run out winners again,it galls me but let’s be fair about it given the money that swills around their game I can’t see it changing much,but yes the monopoly has been broken so that’s a start.
josie andrews
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Re: Great result for International game?

Post by josie andrews »

Good post 👏🏼 I couldn't plan ahead to book any game as I had 3 operations due in this off season period. I have great specialists, in different areas, who know how much RL means to me so any ops are done in off season if possible.

Can’t go to the final even if England had got there ☹️ Just come out of Wrightington on Friday after major surgery. Still gutted for England & Waney though 😢
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
The Yonner
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Great result for International game?

Post by The Yonner »

I think the organization of the World Cup needs looking at after this. We have had a Kangaroo touring team in England for 6 weeks and we haven't seen even one contest between them and England - what a wasted opportunity!

It should have been obvious before the start that Aus vs NZ would be the de-facto world cup final, and so it has come to pass. Furthermore, after the loss in the semi we are none the wiser as to where England sits in the rankings in relation to NZ, Samoa, Tonga and even Fiji.

I recommend restricting the next comp to those listed above plus France and PNG with a new formula that guarantees Aus vs NZ and England Vs Aus. The other nations were woefully weak and need to go back to an Emerging Nations competition.
moto748
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Re: Great result for International game?

Post by moto748 »

The Yonner wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:03 pm I think the organization of the World Cup needs looking at after this. We have had a Kangaroo touring team in England for 6 weeks and we haven't seen even one contest between them and England - what a wasted opportunity!

It should have been obvious before the start that Aus vs NZ would be the de-facto world cup final, and so it has come to pass. Furthermore, after the loss in the semi we are none the wiser as to where England sits in the rankings in relation to NZ, Samoa, Tonga and even Fiji.

I recommend restricting the next comp to those listed above plus France and PNG with a new formula that guarantees Aus vs NZ and England Vs Aus. The other nations were woefully weak and need to go back to an Emerging Nations competition.
Did you even watch the games?
The Yonner
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Great result for International game?

Post by The Yonner »

moto748 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:09 pm
The Yonner wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:03 pm I think the organization of the World Cup needs looking at after this. We have had a Kangaroo touring team in England for 6 weeks and we haven't seen even one contest between them and England - what a wasted opportunity!

It should have been obvious before the start that Aus vs NZ would be the de-facto world cup final, and so it has come to pass. Furthermore, after the loss in the semi we are none the wiser as to where England sits in the rankings in relation to NZ, Samoa, Tonga and even Fiji.

I recommend restricting the next comp to those listed above plus France and PNG with a new formula that guarantees Aus vs NZ and England Vs Aus. The other nations were woefully weak and need to go back to an Emerging Nations competition.
Did you even watch the games?
Yes I did. What's your point?
the pieman
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: Great result for International game?

Post by the pieman »

The Yonner wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:28 am
moto748 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:09 pm
The Yonner wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:03 pm I think the organization of the World Cup needs looking at after this. We have had a Kangaroo touring team in England for 6 weeks and we haven't seen even one contest between them and England - what a wasted opportunity!

It should have been obvious before the start that Aus vs NZ would be the de-facto world cup final, and so it has come to pass. Furthermore, after the loss in the semi we are none the wiser as to where England sits in the rankings in relation to NZ, Samoa, Tonga and even Fiji.

I recommend restricting the next comp to those listed above plus France and PNG with a new formula that guarantees Aus vs NZ and England Vs Aus. The other nations were woefully weak and need to go back to an Emerging Nations competition.
Did you even watch the games?
Yes I did. What's your point?
are you suggesting that it should be Eng v Oz or NZ v Oz in the final?

this has probably been one of the most entertaining world cups i can recall. yes i'm disappointed that England didnt make the final, but they arent there because they got beat by a better side on the day.

I personally think that they need to persist with the current format of the WC, but they need a defined international calendar to help the likes of Scotland, Wales, Jamaica, Lebanon, Greece etc to get regular international games and build their home competitions. It wont happen overnight, but i got as much joy and entertainment from watching and listening to the stories about some of those countries as i did from watching other more developed countries. To supplement that, we also need a regular tour for England, whether that be us going down under or Oz, NZ or the South Sea Islands teams coming up to us. I'd love to see us play Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, PNG over the course of 4 weeks, and they can also play Scotland, Wales, France and Ireland

there is a thread (cant remember if its on here or RL fans) discussing the merits of reducing the number of overseas players playing in SL. I can see the benefits from both sides of the argument, as many of the Ozzies we have playing over here, now cant get a gig in Oz or are past it. If i use French and Field as examples, they have lit up the competition over here, but bet they were nowhere near being selected.
Equally, Tonga, Samoa, PNG, Fiji etc have massively benefitted from their players playing week in, week out in the NRL (approx 40% of the playing rosta), so you can see the benefit from those nations, now that the players are choosing to play for their country of birth / heritage, and not just Oz or NZ

in SL, we may need to perhaps reduce the number of Oz or NZ players, but have an allowance for developing nations (granted the players need to be good enough to play) to help support their development in a similar way to how the NRL has clearly progressed the quality of the South Sea Island teams. I know this isnt the only or the ideal solution, but as a shorter term option, to give those nations a chance to embed their own competitions and start to produce their own players / improve their competition

overall, i think the WC has been a success, apart from some of the crowds due to ticket pricing. The coverage on BBC has been very good, with some great commentary / studio combinations. The inclusion of the Mens, Womens, PDRL and Wheelchair has been excellent, and i've really enjoyed watching all the games across the board, and been pleasantly surprised at the quality / speed and physicality of some of those games too.
Will Oz whitewash Samoa on saturday, who knows, but it will be good to see someone other than Oz, Nz or England in the final. Samoa have plenty of experienced players, many playing in the NRL, so shouldnt be overawed by the occasion.
The Yonner
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Great result for International game?

Post by The Yonner »

the NRL has clearly progressed the quality of the South Sea Island teams. I know this isnt the only or the ideal solution, but as a shorter term option, to give those nations a chance to embed their own competitions and start to produce their own players / improve their competition


But they won't build up their own competitions and produce their own players will they? You have acknowledged yourself that it's the participation of the South Sea Islanders in the NRL which has produced the quality expressed through the national teams, which are really an artificial construct without a solid base.

The reality is that there are only two national rugby leagues of significance: the Australian NRL (incorporating Auckland) and the English Super League (incorporating Catalans). Australia, New Zealand, Samoa, and Tonga have displayed a high standard of play because of their players' participation in the NRL. Even England needs a sizeable contribution from NRL players to be competitive.

The weakness in this World Cup was that there is not enough quality to go around and make the lesser nations competitive, so there were too many gross mismatches. Weak teams facing each other produced entertaining matches certainly, but a world cup is surely all about identifying which national team is the best. I think the format of this competition prevented that, by involving too many nations and thereby failing to put England in a round robin with Australia and New Zealand. There really needs to be a return to three-test series between the big three for there to be meaningful international competition.
the pieman
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: Great result for International game?

Post by the pieman »

The Yonner wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:01 pm
the NRL has clearly progressed the quality of the South Sea Island teams. I know this isnt the only or the ideal solution, but as a shorter term option, to give those nations a chance to embed their own competitions and start to produce their own players / improve their competition


But they won't build up their own competitions and produce their own players will they? You have acknowledged yourself that it's the participation of the South Sea Islanders in the NRL which has produced the quality expressed through the national teams, which are really an artificial construct without a solid base.
just in response to this part

we all must admit that they cant do it based on their relative populations Tonga 100k, Samoa 200k, Fiji 900k

how can an island with a population of 100k have its own competition to thrive at international level. maybe, a cross island based competition could work (i dont know the logistics or likelihood of that happening)

if we compare to Wigan with a population of 330k and we have 1 (poss 2 super league teams) and a whole host of top amateur clubs. Wigan couldnt produce enough for a nation all by itself, so we have to be realistic about what other nations can / cant produce and look to alternatives if they are practical
moto748
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Great result for International game?

Post by moto748 »

the pieman has expressed my feelings much better than I could have done. The island nations deserve our support, they have brought so much to the comp.

So thanks for that! :D

I've enjoyed the World Cup, it's been great entertainment, and I'm looking forward to the finals tomorrow.
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