Competitive Scrum?

[Bear]

I can understand that scrums can hurt necks, backs and shoulders... this was the reason they stopped it

Like Matthew said i would rather feka being taught the art of running over players than scrumming but i do think that scrums should be a lot more competative as they only open the feild for the backs and th ball comes out anyroad. I think it should be fed into the middle and hooked by the hookers.

[Wigan Watcher]

I think the rule should be changed. It would be better if the ruling was that at least one of the hookers had to touch the ball.

[DaveO]

thegimble posted:
As people who have played the game will tell you its very rare that a scrum being pulled down by a prop can cause serious damage. Its when the inital contact happens and the pack collapses that can put necks in a dangerous positions.

It does not matter why it happens but if spinal injuries keep happening you will IMO see an end to competitive scrums. If spinal injuries continue occur the refs and the RFU will be very afraid of litigation and will be forced to end the competitive scrum. The idea everyone knows the risks assumes proper refereeing and regulation of the sport and if someone challenges that a game was properly reffed that resulted in a serious injury then its case closed.

Its obvious you have no understanding of the importance of the scrum in union. The game will not allow the scrum to develop into the joke it is in league today.

Well first off the scrum isn't a joke in RL. It is as it is for a reason. I dare say the line out was important in RU but now it is one of the most ridiculous sights in sport as players are hoisted into the air by their jockstraps. That aspect of the game changed away from the original way it was ruled and what will change the way scrums work won't be any nostalgic notion of retired props but the necessities of the game evolving in the professional era.

The fact is the pro players are far more powerful than they used to be, so when people who played the game 15 or 20 years ago site their own experience on the field I really do wonder if they appreciate the difference between playing for the local side in the vets and playing for a professional side or in an international.

There is a difference from un competetive scrummaging and making it safer. Do not mix the 2 and come up with your own conclusions.

If attempts to make competitive scrums safe fail then it will become uncompetitive is my conclusion. It is obvious.

Dave

[lucky 13]

Its obvious you have no understanding of the importance of the scrum in union. The game will not allow the scrum to develop into the joke it is in league today

You are right i have no idea and to be honest not bothered I am a RL fan my interest of union is little, I see the odd bit now and again mainly if an ex RL player is on the field even then i often drift off on to something else.

My opinion of the league scrum isn't that it is a joke , can you compare props at union with league for skill level as a rugby player or fitness wise no you cant the job of a RU prop is completely different and because of the competitive nature of the scrum they have developed into two quite different sports men.

I would rather see our(joke) scrums and ball back in play than watch 8 blokes pushing for 2 or 3 minutes.

[Panchitta Marra]

Sorry but what is the point of a scrum in Rugby League. My opinon is get rid of them and use the handover rule at any mistake such as knock on's, forward passes etc. It would then present more time to go about the real tasks of rugby, scoring exiting tries. Rugby League broke away from the inferior ra ra game years ago, and its importance of a good scrum, in addition to rucks and mauls (little boys who like to play with each others balls). The players and the game of League is now yards faster, more athletic, with the ball to hand vastly superior to our union counterparts.
Let the game flow continually, why tire out players like Feta, Fielden, Fletch and Hock in wasted trivualities such as scrums. Let them use their energy up ripping into the opposition.
Has anyone seen the teletext with regards to Charlie Hodgson's road to recovery, and his idea of using Rugby Leage for a month as a way of getting fit for the RU World cup. Charlie boy must have ideas well above his ability, although if he needs match fitness, I could see Workington Town possibly giving him the chance. Well thats my rant at scrums and the other game. Aye.

[wigan no1 fan]

A scrum adds variety to the game and theoretically presents a greater attacking opportunity with all the forwards packed down and backs opposing backs with more open space. Most teams are lazy as regard scrum moves unfortunately.

[thegimble]

Matthew posted:
The RFU are currently looking at ways to reduce the impact of the front rows at the forming of the scrum. The have recently been using the "touch, hold, engage" method - in order to stop teams being too far apart and therefore charging into contact.

As was mentioned above - if either team cannot field a specialist front row then scrums are uncontested. Teams have been known to feint injury when getting turned over at the scrum in order to gain the advantage - not something that I would want to see in our game.

Refereeing the scrum is a very hard thing to do - as was proved in the RU World Cup Final where England were penalised when Australia could not hold them - that decision led to a penalty being kicked and extra time. This could ultimately have gifted the destination of the world cup to the wrong team.

Personally, whilst I think that it is a good thing when teams occasionally attempt to push at the scrum to force a mistake from the side with possession; I wouldn't want it to become a feature of our game and therefore become as messy an area as it regularly becomes in Union.

Likewise I wouldn't want players like Feka to have to spend time on practising the art of scrummaging rather than perfecting the art of running over the top of opposition players. Props in RL are exciting battering rams who makes holes in defences for fast and elusive players to exploit - one of the things that make me - someone who lives in the RU heartland a RL fan.

The point you make re uncompetative scrummage has been in the game for over a decade easily. We had the rule in 1 game where we did not have 2 recognised props. Bloody lucky we were we had been hamered until the prop went off.

1 point i do make is that props in union are there and built for scrummaging. Just as Fielden or any other league prop would destroy any union prop in open play theyd get a battering in the scrums though.

Props in league are more like back rows in union.

[thegimble]

DaveO posted:

thegimble posted:
As people who have played the game will tell you its very rare that a scrum being pulled down by a prop can cause serious damage. Its when the inital contact happens and the pack collapses that can put necks in a dangerous positions.

It does not matter why it happens but if spinal injuries keep happening you will IMO see an end to competitive scrums. If spinal injuries continue occur the refs and the RFU will be very afraid of litigation and will be forced to end the competitive scrum. The idea everyone knows the risks assumes proper refereeing and regulation of the sport and if someone challenges that a game was properly reffed that resulted in a serious injury then its case closed.

Its obvious you have no understanding of the importance of the scrum in union. The game will not allow the scrum to develop into the joke it is in league today.

Well first off the scrum isn't a joke in RL. It is as it is for a reason. I dare say the line out was important in RU but now it is one of the most ridiculous sights in sport as players are hoisted into the air by their jockstraps. That aspect of the game changed away from the original way it was ruled and what will change the way scrums work won't be any nostalgic notion of retired props but the necessities of the game evolving in the professional era.

The fact is the pro players are far more powerful than they used to be, so when people who played the game 15 or 20 years ago site their own experience on the field I really do wonder if they appreciate the difference between playing for the local side in the vets and playing for a professional side or in an international.

There is a difference from un competetive scrummaging and making it safer. Do not mix the 2 and come up with your own conclusions.

If attempts to make competitive scrums safe fail then it will become uncompetitive is my conclusion. It is obvious.

Dave

1 i played union about 10 years ago as a tight head prop in the national league in Wales. Scrummaging since then has actually got safer in union. 2 major changes occured 1 over a decade ago and they other this or last season.

2. Lineouts rules get changed often hence the fashion of not contesting them and contesting them. Being Welsh we get contesetd every time. Were crap at them. Lineouts is the technically most difficult part of the game in union and has a lot more skill than u realise.

[wigan no1 fan]

Gimble therein lies the problem. The rules of union preclude playing expansive entertaining rugby. Nowhere is this better exemplified than backs having to run back towards the mass of forwards in order to secure a 2nd phase rather than running into space and attempting to beat an opponent but in doing so have to sacrifice possession if they are stopped.

As for scrums. The scrum is fed in union to such an extent that it is not competitive. The opposition pack cheat in order to disrupt that virtually gauranteed possession. Wheeling, collapsing etc. Hence, why scrums can be dangerous with teams seeking to gain an advantage at the point of engage. I actually do see a point when even in union scrums will not be contested and they will simply look prettier than league owing to 2 extra forwards. It is not here now but it will happen.

Lineouts. More skill pre lifting. I see no Bob Norster in the modern day Welsh team. Today, I think they are overcomplicated. England being the classic example.