The quick tap from the 20

[cpwigan]

If you are replacing the current dross with more indoctrinated dross then what chance of progress. What makes it worse is you are now paying more for the same old dross. Cummings was a poor referee, Tennent was a poor referee. What hope have young referees got? blind leading the blind. General Haig would make a better leader than Stuart Cummings.

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:

GeoffN posted:
Watch the clip I'm talking about, Rob. Klein is running back from about the 10m line, he checks WHILE HE'S RUNNING that all the Wigan players are onside, checks for offsides on the Bradford line, and blows for the restart, still on the run, as he passes the 20. That, IMO, is good refereeing (and I'm certainly not a Klein fan!).
The point being, it shows there's nothing in the rules to say he has to be on the 30. Nothing to do with his extra pace, as Dave has said, simply his willingness (in this instance) to keep the game moving, and to not favour the defence.

I remember it happening on Saturday night, Geoff.

There is nothing in the rules that states the referee has to be on the 30 m line, the key point everyone is missing is that the referee must feel he is in control of the restart.

It does not say that in the rules either! So where has that come from?

Dave

[DaveO]

damien morrissey posted:

robjoenz posted:

GeoffN posted:
Watch the clip I'm talking about, Rob. Klein is running back from about the 10m line, he checks WHILE HE'S RUNNING that all the Wigan players are onside, checks for offsides on the Bradford line, and blows for the restart, still on the run, as he passes the 20. That, IMO, is good refereeing (and I'm certainly not a Klein fan!).
The point being, it shows there's nothing in the rules to say he has to be on the 30. Nothing to do with his extra pace, as Dave has said, simply his willingness (in this instance) to keep the game moving, and to not favour the defence.

I remember it happening on Saturday night, Geoff.

There is nothing in the rules that states the referee has to be on the 30 m line, the key point everyone is missing is that the referee must feel he is in control of the restart.

Rob dont you see this as a major problem. The rules are meant to be black and white clear for everyone if the ref applies the rules on how he feels doesnt he open himself up to questions.
What i read from your statement is that if the ref can do what the hell he likes and can answer it with i didnt feel like i was in control.How can the players coaches and fans understand that? Whats the point in having a rulebook if one rule can lead to 2 variables one which offers the attack the advantage and one that doesnt.

It does not make any sense at all and the only sensible way to control the 20m restart is once the player with the ball is in the correct position and his team are on-side the ref should blow the whistle.

The ref can see that that is the case without running back all the way to the 30m line as some of them seem to do.

Dave

[cpwigan]

Dave as you say the little red book or whatever they follow should say, play can be restarted when the team in possession are all within the 20. That should be the only criteria. Having met that the player with the ball has to tap it on the 20m line in a central position (Ideally marked by a spot IMO). Strewth it is not like referees do not get more rests anyway nowadays with the advent of the video referee. The control issue is a non starter.

[Stev0]

DaveO posted:

robjoenz posted:

Yes, there is some inconsistency here, but how would you suggest getting around it?

Revert to the way it was interpreted previously. It is only recently that certain refs are insisting on getting back to the 30m line, presumably due to their interpretations of directives form the RFL.

Dave

Totally agree, a couple of years ago Calderwood was running rampage for Leeds from quick 20m taps. Were the refs not in control of the game then? Surely making the game more attacking and exciting is good for both sets of speccies and the media, and that's what it should be about...selling our game.

[robjoenz]

Stev0 posted:

DaveO posted:

robjoenz posted: Revert to the way it was interpreted previously. It is only recently that certain refs are insisting on getting back to the 30m line, presumably due to their interpretations of directives form the RFL.

Dave

Totally agree, a couple of years ago Calderwood was running rampage for Leeds from quick 20m taps. Were the refs not in control of the game then? Surely making the game more attacking and exciting is good for both sets of speccies and the media, and that's what it should be about...selling our game.

Why not do away with referees altogether, it'd be much more exciting with all the fighting that would ensue of petty arguments. The referee needs to control the game in the best way he can.

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:

Stev0 posted:

DaveO posted: Totally agree, a couple of years ago Calderwood was running rampage for Leeds from quick 20m taps. Were the refs not in control of the game then? Surely making the game more attacking and exciting is good for both sets of speccies and the media, and that's what it should be about...selling our game.

Why not do away with referees altogether, it'd be much more exciting with all the fighting that would ensue of petty arguments. The referee needs to control the game in the best way he can.

Given people have put forward well reasoned arguments why one specific aspect of the game, the quick tap, should revert to the way it used to be - which worked for years what sort of comment is that?

It certainly does not refute any of the arguments put forward and this idea of the ref being out of control if he blows before getting back to the 30m line is baloney.

Dave

[Panchitta Marra]

DaveO posted:

robjoenz posted:

Stev0 posted: Why not do away with referees altogether, it'd be much more exciting with all the fighting that would ensue of petty arguments. The referee needs to control the game in the best way he can.

Given people have put forward well reasoned arguments why one specific aspect of the game, the quick tap, should revert to the way it used to be - which worked for years what sort of comment is that?

It certainly does not refute any of the arguments put forward and this idea of the ref being out of control if he blows before getting back to the 30m line is baloney.

Dave

Surely some onus should be placed on the defending team to ensure they get their players back on side. If they dont, let the attacking side have the advantage by taking the quick tap. The way it is now makes it easy for a team to slow down the game by making the opposition wait until they are on side, then the ref blkows his whistle.

[robjoenz]

DaveO posted:
Given people have put forward well reasoned arguments why one specific aspect of the game, the quick tap, should revert to the way it used to be - which worked for years what sort of comment is that?

It certainly does not refute any of the arguments put forward and this idea of the ref being out of control if he blows before getting back to the 30m line is baloney.

I don't know the precise reason behind it but I suspect it has come from getting the referees to have a tighter control on the game. It's not baloney (that's a type of sausage isn't it?) it's about refereeing the game in a manner that ensures you keep control of every aspect of it.

People say there are too many penalties in matches and would like to see a more flowing game. There is a fine line though between letting a game flow and the players getting out of control because they didn't like being laid upon or having their face rubbing in the mud. It's the reason behind the early match clamp down.

[robjoenz]

DaveO posted:

robjoenz posted:
There is nothing in the rules that states the referee has to be on the 30 m line, the key point everyone is missing is that the referee must feel he is in control of the restart.

It does not say that in the rules either! So where has that come from?

SECTION 16
DUTIES OF REFEREE AND TOUCH JUDGES

7. The players are under the control of the Referee from the time they enter the playing area until they leave it.

4. He may, at his discretion, temporarily suspend or
prematurely terminate a match because of adverse
weather, undue interference by spectators,
misbehaviour by players, or any other cause which,
in his opinion, interferes with his control of the
game.